The Diamond Sword. Rule change regarding loop holing.

How do we catch most loopers? By watching them. Everyone is acting like it's difficult to tell who is intentionally doing it just to get a karma ban and who is doing because they thought it was a legit thing.

Loophole trolls: They're not exactly inconspicuous.

 

To attempt to finalize this thread, let's get the important stuff thrown on the board:

• Holding the charged or uncharged Diamond Sword (and Axe on Rooftops) is Traitorous
• There is no set rule against people who interact with the Diamond sword. Therefore we cannot have a requested rule change because it's a discretionary decision to punish for potential loopholing
• If you kill a player for picking up the freshly crafted sword it shouldn't be considered loopholing, like at all. Even if it causes RDM chains because it's not loopholing at all -- it's more trolling than anything close to loopholing (these are two separate offenses). I mean if you're lowering people's karma and causing tons of unnecessary RDM it's not really your fault. The player who picked up the sword should be held responsible for that, not you, the killer.

Thread will remain open for further questions.

 

I don't agree, I do consider it loopholing. The rule is carrying the sword is traitorous. They are loopholing (the few cases that occur) because they are using that rule to kill someone who crafts and picks up the sword, when they know it can't harm anyone. You can argue an innocent has no reason to pick up the sword, but the individual who kills him is still using that rule as an excuse to kill that player, when they know the sword can't harm anyone at the time.

 

The sword is dangerous. Killing players who carry the sword towards the enchanting room should be a good reason.

 

I agree, innos should never touch the sword ever.

 

I'm not looking to start a public staff dispute here, but we don't punish players for following the rules -- that's just not how it works. We do in some cases ask an admin to review a player based on their Karma bans and excessive history of killing players who are obviously not traitors but have just done traitorous acts. You're free to believe in what you wish, but If you're looking to enforce this as a loopholing claim you best have the admin discretion to back it because we, as moderators, do not have the authority to make that claim.

 

Man example of a similar instance is traitor rooms; especially on vanilla. You'll sometimes see a detective stand in either room on Minecraft city and let players in just to kill them for committing a traitorous act. This is loopholing and it is frowned upon. If a moderator is online, we would seek admin discretion to punish the player.

If you're playing the game and genuinely following the rule that carrying the sword is traitorous, there won't be any problems.

Loopholing is handled on a case by case basis and that is why there's is no specific rule for any kind of loopholes.

 

I did not mean to make you think I didn't talk to an admin about it. I have never enforced this on my own. If I see a player abusing that rule to kill other people I talk to an admin and get their verdict. As Mango said it's case by case. I did not mean to imply that everyone who kills a player for picking up the sword as its crafted is loopholing. They could simply not be aware of the enchantment feature and just know that the sword is traitorous.

 

The way I see this, is that of Zane's prospective, and likely because that's how I taught him. He's not acting on his own accord, so you best not worry about that.

Anyways, the reason this is so, is that a player who witnesses the creation of the sword, and has 110% clarity that the sword is harmless, yet acts on the rule anyways is loop-holing in my opinion. You can say that you aren't sure of what their intentions are, and that they are carrying something that has no other purpose than to kill, but that can be said about a user with an ak47 standing right in your face. I'm not sure of his intentions, but if I killed him simply because of this, that'd be killing off of suspicion, and I'd be slain for it. This is the same for the sword, in my opinion. If you're not sure of it being charged or not, you have every reason to kill the user, as there's no way to tell until it's too late. However, if you are completely aware of the sword's lack of harm, yet you act on it, how is that not loop-holing or killing on suspicion? If there are any more disputes against my post or any of the other staff's posts, feel free to make a thread in you know where, just so it's not a public dispute.

Onto the suggestion, what I typed above about killing on suspicion basically sums up this point. If you're looking at me with a shotgun to the head, and I killed you simply because of your possible intentions, I'd be slain, and that's that. It isn't any different here. You're acting simply on what could happen, rather than the current scenario. Just because it can be lethal, doesn't mean it is. Yet, and this is the reason we have the rule so that you can kill for it anytime it's held, there is no way to tell if it is lethal or not, which is why the loop-holing occurs when the user has full knowledge that it is harmless.

 

Fair enough.