Political Throwdown (part 2)

Socialism was never going to win.

 

Ugh he wasn't even a socialist. God I get so upset when people say this kind of shit.

 

What about a Democratic Socialist?

 

What about it? He called himself that rather erroneously, considering that wasn't at all what his policies reflected. He was more of a social democrat, but i can understand such a mistake. Regardless, even if he called himself a socialist, where in any of his policies does it say that he wants to abolish private property? Where in any of his policies does it say he wants to abolish the state? Where in any of his policies does he call for a worker's revolution to overthrow the bourgeois and seize the means of production?

I took the bait though didn't I?

 

So Bernie self describes as a Democratic Socialist but his platform is Social Democratic? Or did he have a freudian slip and say "Democratic Socialist" instead of "Social Democratic"?

 

He self describes as a Democratic Socialist but his platform is Social Democratic. I couldn't tell you why he does this. Only he would know.

 

So why do you get bent out of shape when someone calls him a socialist? he self describes as one....

 

Because he said "Socialism was never going to win" implying that Bernie was running on socialist policies, which he wasn't.

 

This was put in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it, so I decided to post it here. @LeBlonde James

I want to say that I kind of disagree with your stance on capitalism, well, not necessarily a disagreement but I want to expand upon it. I am not a die-hard fan of capitalism, in the same vein that i'm not a die-hard socialist. I think that ultimately capitalism does a good job at determining what gets made, when it gets made, and who gets it. The problem with capitalism is that it often leads to wealth inequality, as wealth is redistributed upwards, and wealth allows for too much movement within the market. Monopolies and such are also very bad, and should be thwarted immediately. It is why I support state intervention in the economy, establishing rules of the game that prevent monopolies and that redistribute wealth through our tax system. Not necessarily in favor of the state, mind you, but it is an unfortunate evil. I know that some people want to embrace anarchism, and there are a lot of fantastical ideas like "well, we will have councils of workers that will make decisions on a factory basis" which sounds good until you realize that these councils may lack the authority necessary to carry out their orders, may be corruptible, or may just flat out not work in the first place. In a way, a state is the utmost authority over our economy, and we have a say in what our state does (to a certain degree. I'd like to see more democracy in the US, but that is just me).

Personally? I am a huge supporter of worker run co-operatives. I believe that firms should be transformed into a coop when they reach a certain number of employees (obviously a guy in his garage doesn't need to share his company with the boy he hired to help him fix mufflers), and in my ideal world it would work like this: when you join the co-op you would be required to purchase stock in the company (up to a certain amount based on the policies of the company) and that stock would be taken out of your paycheck or you could pay it directly. From there the firm would function as a democracy. Managers and CEO's would be voted into their positions, both by the employees and the board of directors (who also invest in the company). Furthermore, future decisions would fall onto the members of the firm, and they would have a vote.

The pros of the system are that it still falls within the capitalist framework. The company still produces goods at market value, and the company still trades publicly or privately, the only difference is that the investors of the firm are also the firm's workers. This would increase the money of the average person if the corporation was doing well, allow for them to vote for different people if the corporation is doing poorly, and ultimately increase the investments and value of a corporation (as everyone is required to buy in). Furthermore, CEO's and founders of the company would still be paid handsomely for their work, as they would not lose their stock or their seat on the board should they be voted out of their position as CEO. The reason I support this is because I feel that if you work for a company than you are dependent on that company's success. If it goes under, you lose your job. There are definitely problems with this, and the state would still need to make sure that companies aren't forcing their employees to pay the stock upfront, or to make sure that the amount bought is reasonable. Essentially, it would need to be done where the worker has to buy at least one share, but he/she can have it taken out of their paycheck over time if they cannot afford it right away. They can buy more shares if they want, but they must buy at least one to be considered for voting purposes.

The workplace should be democratized to a certain extent. I am not a fan of the workers seizing the means of production and ousting the management, as the management is specialized in a such a way that removing them would be to the detriment of the firm. Also, I generally, overall, like capitalism. lol

 

Oop. So I posted that to the Compass thread to explain why my dot was located where it was.
Since that was an explanation of my compass, I really didn't dig into details on everything (* I did but I deleted it since it went off on nitpicking and took up space)
So I guess if I am to add anything, I'll say that basically everything I said take it with a grain of salt, it was all galactic basic for the simplicity of the thread.

Yes, Capitalism has it's obvious and very real flaws. It's imbalance of power, the abuse of the system and currency as is, how greed can potentially harm, etc.
There's an increasingly worrying wealth gap in the country that needs to be fixed somehow. People like Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, in my opinion, are completely fine and are the best the system offers.
However, the people that profit off of the healthcare system or the people who manipulate the banks and currency as is to make millions are wrong.
I'm in full support of some sort of healthcare revision (it's mostly the insurance companies fault for rising health prices btw), as well as a UBI. Take care of your workers, much like you would gears in a machine.
However, I'm in belief that Capitalism + Basic Human Rights brings good results. Companies often follow societies norms in order to profit, such as GMO labels/ Organic compounds/ okay-er working conditions.
Sure it's company pandering, but who said pandering is bad? It's called Peer Pressure :^)

Capitalism is a tool to empower the culture of today, but yesterday's today had cultural problems with oppression. With our eventual progression, we can see that capitalism culturally progresses as well (to make money duh).
As long as money lies in the hands of good people, the system will be good to get it. That's the beauty and horror of the system, it lives and breathes for your money.
I'm not one to say "wEll yOu hAVe aN iPHoNe so liBs/sOciALiSm deStroYed" but I like what capitalism brings me.

Now let us pray to our Neon gods.

 

Over 3 years down, almost 5 more to go of your histrionic autistic screeching.

Sometimes I genuinely wondered what my purpose in life was. My place in the universe. Was anything worth it? Was all my hard work and study truly for naught? The largest star ever observed is the UY Scuti, with a radius roughly 1,700 times that of the sun in our Solar System. By comparison, the approximate mass of the Sun is 1.989 x 10^30 kilograms... yes, that's thirty zeroes. By further comparison, if you're a male of average height and reasonably-fit, the Sun is approximately 2.652 by ten to the twenty-eighth power larger than you are. Sometimes I would remember this and think, "We are all so utterly insignificant."

Then, something truly magical happened. Donald Trump, a businessman from New York, won the U.S. Presidential Election. His opponent? A murderous, evil cunt whose schemes and ploys go back decades. Hillary Clinton. "It was HER TIME!" the masses cried. It was then, ONLY then, that I understood how things came together in such a beautiful way.

Of the tens of thousands of years that human beings have existed, you and I were born to revel in this exquisite moment. Donald Trump causing butthurt. So much butthurt.

 

oh yeah dude he is really owning all the libs right now, especially those without ventilators. very funny prank lol.

 

you seem kinda pissed ngl

 

Hes mad because someone called Bernie a socialist.

 

Basically

“That wasn't real socialism”

I can't take him seriously tbh

 

Yeah i'm a little salty. If we had taken action against Coronavirus earlier we may have had better outcomes, and maybe I could be seeing my girl right now instead of being cooped up in the house all day. Just saying lol.

Because it wasn't? Like I said before, I never heard Bernie say he wanted to seize the means of production lol. If advocating for universal healthcare is socialism, then I guess every other developed country is socialist as well. What makes me angry is that instead of talking about his actual policy, people just dismiss him as a crazy old socialist, and it really does suck when his policies would easily make life better for most people in this country.

I can't take any of you seriously because half the time I can't tell if you guys are joking or being serious. That makes things overly complicated for me because I want to have a real political debate, instead of just going back and forth with dumb conservative talking points and "gotcha" lines. It is really annoying.

 

the government as a whole failed us, both federal and state. Why did no one push to close borders and quarantine US citizens returning to the US? Why did no one push to lockdown america for 3 weeks? To me this crisis just exposed how much the government really cares.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention, I'm asking those questions as to why the government didn't act sooner (aka early jan)

 

I only "supported" Bernie to try to hook up with the early 20s, edgy college girls. Trump finna sweep now that its just biden left

 

As one of those citizens that almost got quarantined outside the country, it really did hurt to see how poorly this was handled. It was "a hoax" the day before, and then boom borders were closed. It scared the absolute fuck out of me and I had to leave my vacation early. It really goes to show how terrible this whole thing has been handled. It makes me regret ever going on the trip in the first place, and now I'll probably never get to do it again, like ever. I can't imagine ever having the finances to travel like that. Half of me still regrets ever leaving, knowing that all my classes are online, I kind of wish I got stranded on my trip and kind of winged a nomad adventure. So much better knowing that my job would get fucked and school would fuck me as well. I could be trekking through Switzerland or Egypt right now. Instead I'm exiled in my own home, eating cheese quesadillas and watching Brooklyn 99 re-runs. Not the worst life, but I'm now net negative due to the sudden "oh shit I have to get back" feeling everyone outside of the country had.

 

whoever called it a hoax was dumb, honestly I expected the government to yano, do something smart so it didnt hit us, but yano, we have useless elected officials who only care for their political seat, so therefore we all suffer.