Admins Shouldn't Have Discretion To Allow Forgiving Of Themselves

I would like it if admins didn't use discretion on mods/themselves however making a rule like this can trap us if we ever do need to use discretion on ourselves/mods in the future for a serious reason. The current system allows for a choice to how to use your discretion, and I happen to choose to not give discretion when staff RDM, however, removing this choice would be limiting the kind of discretion that other admins like to give. Both types of admins can be happy with the current system, those who like to give discretion when the circumstances arise for staff, and those who don't.

 

Because its a game. As explained before by people RDM happens that had very little to no impact on the game itself and as you agree it also happens to staff. I see no reason as to why in a normal round accidental RDM caused by a staff member is any different from a normal player's, mistakes happen.

I forgive just about every accidental RDM on me, no matter if it was a staff, new player or veteran, it makes no sense to me that my forgiveness gets declined just because it happened to be a staff member who made the mistake.
Honestly I would prefer if I seek out forgiveness for the player who completely accidentally RDMs me, it would always be accepted even if it was helix, winks moderator, random new player, andrew or anyone else. The fact that they get slain makes me feel worse than the RDM itself.

I dont think its needed but -1 to the suggestion.

 

To me it just seems like admins should not be asking people for forgiveness when it comes to rdm they have committed especially if they do it every time. Now to suggest that their discretion to do so should be taken away is lunacy, and will never work. This seems to be more of a precedent and oversight problem more than anything. It probably stems from the lead admins not really taking a firm stance on things like they use to, rather to just leave it up to precedent more than anything. Trust me, your solution will not fix this problem, as it is way bigger than just "Take away an admins power to do this or that" it is more along the lines of "Make the lead admins police admins better" and that sort of thing is just not logically sound as there are so few lead admins and so very many admins. I have found that an introduction to a more laissez faire attitude among the lead admins has resulted in less and less oversight of administrators, which obviously comes with benefits and disadvantages. For instance, admins will become much better at solving problems more critically, and much more leniently than they have ever done so, however it can be a bad thing if you don't have a strong enough administration to be able function independently from the upper administration. Really, the idea comes down to how things are set up currently, and when you have studied it like me (because i am a nerd) you find that your solution to the problem just won't gain traction with the leads or the admins unless we got some seriously strict leads, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

 

Hey Aarow. I wanna thank you for making this post. Things like this honestly help the community. I like to look at this post and refer you to an early 21st century film (and 1980's comic) called The Watchmen:

Spoiler: Who Watches the Watchmen?

For some background information - the "Watchmen" refers to a group of vigilantes in an alternate time (set in the 1980's). Now, for some context, this group was highly controversial, because of the outrages that they had caused within the World. This is one of the questions that is brought up to this group of people during the protests against the group.

"Who Watches The Watchmen?"

I whole-heartedly agree with the standard that all staff are held to a higher standard. They are after all the ones that "watch" over servers. They know the rules nearly better than anyone. Why should they be forgiven for any RDM they may commit?

Well the thing is we are human, too. We make mistakes and if a player who falls victim to it wishes to forgive, then an admin+ can use their discretion to not slay for it.

Now as for me, I'm a stubborn person when I make a mistake. I don't like to be forgiven by others until I can forgive myself or it. For slays, I tend to take every single one and don't even bother asking for discretion. We need to learn from our mistakes and if that means adding a slay onto our record - oh well.

However, I feel that admins+ should keep their discretion.

Admins are admins because of their higher judgement and leadership skills. If an admin feels that even they fall victim to a situation - and the victim forgives - why question their judgement?

Admins who abuse this judgement would be swiftly taken care of. Things like this aren't easily messed with and nothing occurs because of it.

I don't currently see a reason to stop admins from having this discretion, and it is up to them if they wish to use that discretion.

Thanks for reading.

Warm Regards,
Husky

 

I'm about to get off so I haven't had time to read through all the posts on page 3, but why not make it like this:
Very strict criteria must be met for an admin to forgive themselves, and one of those criteria must be the player who was RDM'd must message the admin to say they are forgiven, and there is no need for a slay.

 

Cmon guys. It's called discretion for a reason. There are already more restrictions on it than you would realize. Forgiveness and no game impact are already required for most cases.


Edit: You can disagree all you want. If someone is using discretion incorrectly the correct step to take afterwards is to contact their respective lead admin on the topic.

 

If you're stricken with fear and anxiety over what my happen if you punish a superior for a wrongdoing in nothing more than a TTT match, a videogame from decades ago, you're drastically overthinking it.

 

The fact of the matter being we're a rather serious community and anyone caught abusing any rules on the server, Would be punished for abusing.... Alongside this being seemingly over just a few situations compared to multiple I'm going to give this a -1.

 

On the contrary, I would find most people highly uncomfortable being in control of whether or not someone they like is inflicted with a punishment that they themselves dislike.

 

Then stop looking at it in terms of abuse and start thinking about it just practically, how the situation would affect you. Just imagine this: Yuuki, or maybe Helix, Opalium, whomever is your superior, and whom I am assuming you are at least friendly with, RDMs you in a situation you would slay literally anyone else for. You telling me it wouldn't be eat all awkward for you say "No, kill yourself" to them, and you also can't see other people having that issue, even if you don't?

 

Should an accidental RDM be forgiven? Sure. People make mistakes and forgiving each other should be a pretty common thing no matter what rank. It's nice though having admins being the only ones that have that power.

Should admins be purposely RDMing and getting away with it? Probably not. If we have staff that want to RDM each other then they can have another staff picnic. If you're doing it with newcomers watching you could make a pretty poor first impression.

Have fun, but be smart about how you do it.

 

I actually follow through and report almost every time I know/think there wasn't a reason to kill me. If it includes staff members then I still in most cases will have them serve it, It's hypocritical for them not to follow through and slay themselves. Seeing as In most cases the admins don't act like this its an extremely uncommon situation. Admins+ have more of a pull from a players perspective, If an admin were to abuse this, I think it should be handled as that, Abuse. If they had randomly killed, I think they shouldn't be able to forgive themselves yes, BUT... The suggestion states "Admins shouldn't have discretion to allow forgiving themselves" And I don't completely agree with the suggestion. Which is why I -1ed.

 

Actually, during promotions the other day, @DieKasta blatantly RDM'd me. He didn't even have to ask me to forgive him, I just did it. I don't see at all where there's some huge problem with this, and even if he had asked me, I would've said yes. Not out of pressure, but because I have a sense of humor? If he was just being a dickhead about it, I would have insisted on him getting slain without a second thought, and he knows as much. But that's not the reality, and I imagine it's not the case for most people.

 

I think we're overlooking the real issues here. Lead admins rdming? Whats next, ADMINS RDMING????

 

But if mods need discretion to forgive, why don't admins, leads and owners need it?

 

Here is just how I view it: If Admins can ask for forgiveness, then everyone should be able to ask for forgiveness, because the reason I'm arguing admins shouldn't be able to ask for forgiveness is the exact same reason everyone else isn't, which is something you all seem to disagree with.

 

I really doubt the majority of players care in the slightest. I've slayed my friends before, but I'm not worried about it because my friendships aren't so weak that they'll fall apart after someone receives a slay. I'm not trying to imply that's how your friendships are, but if you're actually worried and uncomfortable when being offered the chance to forgive a friend, I feel like you're just making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I've experienced the situation on both ways and there's never any negative feelings. I don't have the screenshot with me, but @Eldon probably has it somewhere. I RDM'd him and when he made a joke about not forgiving me, I told him it was probably time he leave the staff team. We both had a laugh and that was that. I'm not going to get frustrated if I get a deserving punishment for my RDM, and on the other side of the coin, it would be silly for Hyper to be worried that I'd actually be mad at him if he slayed me for RDM.

Actually, I remembered that situation wrong. Whoops

People can ask for forgiveness. They aren't banned from pming the person who reported them and asking "Hey, would you like to forgive me?". It could sound strange coming from a non-staff member, but it's not against the rules to do. Keep in mind, there's still the fact that you'd have to go through two people: a middleman in the form of the moderator who takes it to an admin, and then the admin himself to make the final judgment call.

 

But really. Everyone CAN request forgiveness. It's entirely dependent on if an admin is available, if they see fit to give discretion for it, etc. Just because people don't always get it, has never stopped for it being asked after. Usually it's just a moderator asking in their stead because we typically like to avoid needless slays.

 

I gotta say that the part that I find a little hypocritical is that our staff team that consists of friends RDMs each other and nothing happens, but two people, who are friends, RDM each other or whatever and they get punished; even if the admin that purposely RDM'd their friend handled the case.

 

There is a massive difference between an Admin asking a player for forgiveness, and a player asking a player for forgiveness. Aside from all the personal relationships one might have, or connotations of defying authority if you say no, an Admin asking for forgiveness will always be able to honour it whenever they are forgiven, and a player is not, even if an admin is able to be contacted