Completed Report against @Goose, under @Shadow

Name of Staff/Player:

@Goose, under @Shadow​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

STEAM_0:1:45665102​

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:1:42356641​

Which Server:

West 1​

Which Map:

TTT_Train​

Which Round:

last​

Time of Occurence:

11:00 PM PST​

Reason For Report:

Last round of the map, I was a detective and doing detective things. Bought a radar early on and forget about it until there was only one dot left. Being detective me, I sleuthed it out using my logic and figured he was the traitor. I killed the defenseless man, and found out he was quite innocent. I learned thereafter that the last traitor was using a disguiser, and recieved a slay for Random Death Match. Upon further research, this is protected by the common sense rule and I should of not.​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

Logs should cover this quite clearly.​

 

Since there is a potability that @Goose and @Shadow were not notified with the original tag, I will go ahead and tag them again.
Please be patient while they respond.

 

Hello there, thanks for taking the time to make a report. I hope after reading this you can understand why you were slayed and we can all move on from this with a better understanding of the rules, along with a sense of resolution.

Spoiler: The Report

As you can see here the report I received describes a situation identical to the one you do in your report. You were one of the last 3 people alive, you were a detective with radar and you killed someone for being the last blip. Applying our common sense rule, you assumed it would not be RDM because it makes sense he was the traitor; he was the last blip on your radar so it's common sense he's the T. Using these same rules I arrived at a very different conclusion to you about what this situation was, I hope the next piece of my response will clear up how I arrived to this conclusion.

Spoiler: Relevant Rules

These are the rules relevant to my decision to slay you for for RDM.

The first rule is the definition of our common sense rule that can be found in the extended rules, it clearly states that you may only kill someone on common sense grounds if it implies 100% certainty that they either are a traitor, or committed a traitorous act. In this rule lies my first two reasons for slaying you, because, as you are now well aware, the Disguiser item blocks radar it was impossible for you to know for certain he was the only other person alive; You did not have 100% certainty because there was a chance that a traitor had a Disguiser. Second, since you were not using the common sense rule to say you knew he committed a traitorous act, the only other way it could be used is to say you knew he was a traitor. However it is impossible that you knew for 100% certainty he was a traitor, for the simple fact that he was innocent.

The second rule is in the extended rules under the heading "Sufficient Evidence For Finding Traitors" The section I quoted lists the ways you can use radar to KOS someone. My third, and final reason, for slaying you lies here. As you can see not only does it not list that you may kill someone for being the last blip on your radar, but in fact lists the very reason why you cannot "-The T item Disguiser will prevent them from appearing on your radar."

I'll tag my admin @Shadow so he can finish this up. Thanks again for taking the time to make a report, as I said before, I hope it can be a learning experience for all parties involved. I look forward to playing with you on our servers again in the future. Have a good rest of your night.

 

Thanks for responding so fast @Goose and clarifying that given situation.

So, on the basis of the two rules you presented, I can never kill off basis of players I can tell are alive simply on the basis of my radar? Like, I'll be given a slay if I'm the last detective against the last traitor, without a disguiser and a few mias, and decide to execute him based off my correct math and nothing else? Because in that situation I have a 100% chance of netting a traitor based of logic I employed tonight. Or can I not apply the common sense rule to my equipment in any form that isnt explicitly stated by the extended rules, and always have to assume the possibly of a disguiser.

Oh, editting this bit, almost forgot: under the common sense rule you quoted for me, there's a tidbit that states "This also works for unseen traitorous acts, regardless of the stigma that shrouds this area of the game". I understand this is most likely to cover acts of traiting heard but not seen such as the classic harpoon in a room down the hall, but could it also apply in a format that allows me to employ my math, as it was an unseen traitorous act that did fuck up my count and had no way of knowing.
Thanks for your time again @Goose (;

 

@Wink My logic was that you cannot kill someone based off being the last radar radar blip ever because you are never 100% sure there isn't a traitor with a Disguiser, however after posting this response I was informed of this thread https://www.seriousgmod.com/threads/can-you-kill-off-of-a-radar.20015/

I will be slaying myself based off the decision of that thread next time I am on the server and will readily accept any other punishment for the slay I falsely placed on you. I would like to offer you sincerest apologies for this and hope that you don't hold it against me in the future. I was a slightly unsure about what to do in your situation and instead of doing what I should have done and contacting a higher ranking staff for clarification, I slayed you based on logic that I genuinely believed was sound.

 

Hey @Wink, thanks for your patience.

It seems you two are already at an understanding with what happened here and what should happen next time, but I'll re-iterate it. You ARE allowed to kill off of the last blip on the detectives radar. This is because if the traitor is using a disguiser, it's a traitor using a tactic to win. This tactic being, make the detective believe there's only one person left so he has to be the innocent. Since it is a traitorous tactic to get the detective to kill an innocent, it is NOT punishable as RDM.

I'll make sure this doesn't happen again, thanks for the report.

Report Valid.

Thread: LOCKED