Invalid Report against Big Al

Name of Staff/Player:

Big Al​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

​

Which Server:

West 2​

Which Map:

Bank​

Which Round:

3rd and Last​

Time of Occurence:

3:10am​

Reason For Report:

Big Al has failed to perform his moderator actions.

Got crowbarred, asked for player to be slain via @ chat, didn't slay, asked me to report, did just that, he didnt even look at it until about a round or so after making it, had to say "are you even going to check said report", he marked it as in progress said relax and continued to play the game. So he told me to report then didn't do said report.

Thinks that he is only obligated to slay for reported DMG. When any decent moderator should be trained to look for RDM because 1. Not everyone knows the console command for damage logs 2. Not everyone cares about 20 dmg+ but as a moderator you are required to slay/ban for all RDM.

Then on the last round of bank him and a player loominaty came into the room where a shitfest just went on with Falcor and I, basically Falcor was a T I shot her, Big Al come in saying "What happened here Butters?" all bodies ID'd, loominaty come rushing around the corner shoots me in the skull Big Al kills him, I report said player for RDM. Report is ignored Big Al leaves had to get @StarGazingNight. <3 to actually slay the person the next map when he had connected.

Just a FYI admin notes are meant to be private next time you decide to give them out when people ask then make jokes about selling notes for points.
No evidence on said topic hence why I didn't report but @Falcor might be able to attest this.​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

http://imgur.com/85GxXoy,wZPk5pz,HdEYrG1,ZBjHLPj,qmjEYEx,QTaxqDY
3rd and 4th screenshots are too show that I am not skipping some important information because apparently I am a known liar.

Spoiler: being crowbarred for first dmg.

Spoiler: Evidence of him killing the person who RDM'd in-front of me.

@Falcor​

 

All points made by Mr Butters are true, from my perspective in game. But I believe this is not the moderators fault. I believe there are some major flaws in training mods. Not that I know how they're trained or anything. But I propose there should be a set curriculum to training mods. So errors like ones said above are few and far between. If there are any questions please ask.

 

We already have a said curriculum. That stage is called the Trial Mod phase.

Anyways, @Big Al will respond as soon as he can and I will tag his admin, @FrostedBlade as well so they are both aware of this report.

 

Thats not a curriculum. She means each admin follows the same training guide set by the leads or Highwon.

 

I wish I could rate that as agree.

As far as slaying for damage goes, mods don't always have to slay for all unreported damage, as we can't assume there was not a valid reason for it. But just you sending a message on @ chat counts it as reported damage. Likely he had you make a report yourself in order to get the other player's response. As far as what happened after that we'll have to wait for his response

 

Obvious RDM is meant to be questioned and if the reasoning for why he did such an action is invalid you are meant to slay, such as incen, crowbarring, discombob.

 

I agree with you on that. Were you crowbarred more than once though? Were you both innocent? If it wasn't more than once it would have only been 20 dmg, which most mods are told not to investigate unless reported. If you were a T it would have been harder to spot in the dmg logs as it wouldn't have been brought red. Also, if it wasn't at the beginning of the round it would have been difficult to see by just scanning the dmg logs. And if he was playing at the time he wouldn't have been able to access the logs at all. Also, if there are any reports in progress, or any mic spam, chat spam, or players trying to communicate with the mod, those are of higher priority than to scan the dmg logs of the current round for possible random damage.

 

I say we should just wait for @Big Al's input and wait for his admin's verdict. Thread locked. If you want to continue to discuss this I would do so in private.

 

This thread will stay locked as to avoid anymore unnecessary banter.

As Noctorious has stated, Moderators are trained at their Administrator's consent. This means that some Administrators instruct their Moderators not to slay for damages of certain amounts (20hp or below). However, this is not the correct forum to discuss about a default curriculum to follow. For the record, I have instructed all of my Moderators to always slay for any amount of random damage, however insignificant it may seem. I have also instructed them to always check the logs for the round, even when there are no reports.

RDM is meant to be questioned, yes. Damage in the logs is not always RDM; there are countless situations that may invoke valid reasoning for seemingly random damage. No Moderator should ever just slay someone arbitrarily because a player posts a line of damage in the adminchat. It should always be investigated before a verdict is given out. I think this is why Big Al asks you to make a legitimate report (that's what we have a report system for), so that it is easier to investigate. However unlikely it is, there may have been a legitimate reason for the player to smack you with a crowbar.

I'm not saying that Big Al was not in the wrong here, that is yet to be determined. We will wait for his response to see if he has a valid reason for his actions.

 

Hello Mr. Butters,

During the incident in question, you chose to message me in admin-chat 1 or 2 rounds after your supposed RDM complaint had occurred, so I told you to make a report. The reason I do this is so that I can get your full story in text chat, and I can get the reported players full story.
If I just do what you say and investigate, I would then need to PM the player, get their response via PM, and any follow-up questions I would need to do through PM as well. Not only that, but a players explanation can often span more than one chat message which further makes the process time-consuming and inefficient. It really is not that unreasonable for me to ask you to file a proper report, so I believe you are being unfair in that respect.

After your report was filed he responded with some reasoning revolving around you being KOS'ed (this incident didn't particularly stand out for me so I can't remember all the details) and I didn't buy it myself but I couldn't verify whether the kill was valid or not, so it was chalked up to word vs. word.

For the second situation, again you are being unfair. It was 3 in the morning for me and StarGazingNight joined the server, so I asked him if he could cover so I could go to bed. He said yes so I mentioned there were some reports to deal with, and I left. I didn't neglect my duties, I just left to go to bed and had another moderator take over the reports.

For your last point I'm not even sure what you're talking about, I've never given out admin notes before. I only sometimes give # of slays/kicks/bans etc. to a player who specifically asks for their own stats, and if I'm not busy doing anything else.

I'd also like to point out that through this whole ordeal you were being quite rude. I get that you're frustrated, but understand that as staff we are doing what we do solely to help the community, and we are doing the best we can. If I can't handle every single report you put in within a matter of 1 or 2 minutes, then it's because I'm busy doing something else. That doesn't mean I'm ignoring you or neglecting my duties.

 

Why would I print damage logs that can only be printed for each round and only link it 1-2 round later? What because it was pre-round of the next round that 1 whole round? I apologise I had to use console to print the logs.

So the appropriate thing to do would be to check chat and ask him who it was as it was literally the first amount of damage for that round and it was a crowbar stop then I killed him. At 24 seconds he crowbars me within 12 seconds I question him why but he doesn't continue to try kill me? why? because there was no KOS. So at 36 seconds when he doesn't respond I shoot him.

How am I being unfair? You literally witnessed this guy kill me on no valid grounds shot him round ended about 20 seconds later ish within that 20 seconds I had reported but instead of doing the reports on the LAST round of a map before your replacement came on you leave? I dont think I am being unfair at all.

Yourself and Alchemized were on at the time on italy and you were given out the notes one set of notes that I remember are Falcors because she brings them up all the time, you told her that someone put Loophole troll, also a boy. Believe it was Rambo's note. I specifically said via voice you 2 realize you aren't meant to be doing that right?

Moderating requires your undivided attention so situations like the first when someone bullshit says there is a KOS you can be like NO there was not.

 

As a former moderator you should know exactly how much work it can be, and that you don't always get to things straight away. For you to tell me that I'm not doing my job correctly because I didn't get to your one report within 1 or 2 rounds is pretty absurd considering you've been in a staff position yourself.

I didn't see what happened in that situation, so no I didn't 'act on it straight away'. Just because I was in the vicinity doesn't mean I saw what happened.
Also Alchemized hasn't been a moderator for quite some time, so you're citing a completely irrelevant situation from long ago that I literally have no recollection of.

And yes obviously moderating comes first, and moderating can get in the way of moderating. By that I mean, I was busy doing other reports which is why I couldn't get to yours.

Honestly I think you're just filing an angry report which I half-understand, but realistically your report consists of:
- I filed a report and the guy didn't get slain so obviously it's because you ignored it
- I filed a second report and another moderator handled it so obviously you ignored it
- You leaked admin notes some time long ago of which I have no evidence for

I won't post any more on this thread because I don't want to get into a pissing contest but it's disappointing to me that you felt the need to file a report over this.

 

Precisely I have been in a staff position so I know exactly what I am talking about, you asked me to report after having a conversation via admin chat about it, I played along I reported and it took you 2 rounds just to submit in-progress then continue to play so you cannot say you were doing other reports when you were playing the round I requested you to look at the report.

As for that statement, refer to my comment in the original report, you literally looking at my character asking "What happened here Butters?" when the player runs in shoots me then you shoot him. You were more than in the vicinity. @Falcor can attest this as seen in the logs provided I killed her after which she was spectating me.

It really wasnt that long ago, not even a month.

I am not angry at all.

1.You requested I make a report, I did just that you failed to complete a simple report that took very little to basic knowledge of the rules and guidelines your admin would of set.

2. @StarGazingNight. <3 did not connect to the server until the 1st or 2nd round of the next map so had no way of handling it I had to manually request via @ chat that he please go look through old logs and deal with it, When you yourself could of very easily finished the reports on the server like you are meant to before disconnecting.

3. It was an FYI.

 

I'm fairly sure it was longer than 1 month ago, but it was something about accidentally using game chat instead of TeamSpeak and is quite irrelevant to this report. If it was a big deal, it would have been reported when it happened. - Though, as far as I can remember, it was not intended if we did give out Admin Notes. We were telling some players their adminstats, which is quite different.

Neat report.

 

Mods are not obliged to scrutinize the logs for unreported damage. If you want something done, you contact the moderator. I only read your main post but it appears he also took awhile to handle the report, but I'm just letting you know.

 

Chill guys. Let's let @FrostedBlade make his decision.

 

I did contact him with evidence if you look.

For Event.

 

Mr Butters, thank you for taking the time to file a report, however, with the evidence provided I see no reason to chastise Big Al. Although he may have failed my person team goals, he didn't fail any standards set by the community.

It seems as though there were other reports being investigated at the time, and Big Al simply couldn't get to yours in time before the map changed. I see nothing wrong with what occurred, he even asked for cover after another Moderator left the server. If he had left the server without cover and with reports in-progress, it would be a different story. I am confident that he would have checked the old logs just as @StarGazingNight. <3 did if he had not been on his way out.

Report INVALID