Karma should not replenish when a player has a 'T-round' or during a 'fun round'

EDIT 3: Thanks for all the feedback I've gotten from you guys. I see now that the change I've proposed isn't really a good one. I've missed the possible ramifications it could have for the normal playerbase. My stupid 'improvement' would've caused more harm than good.

EDIT 2: It seems I've made a mistake when it comes to Ts not being able to RDM. I apologize for that and I have edited the post accordingly. Seeing as half of my proposed 'improvement' has lost its meaning, I supposed we can still discuss whether Karma should regenerate during fun rounds.

And yes, I know I seem like a doodoo now.

EDIT 1: I see that there are people that disagree with my idea, so could you please not only give a rating but also reply to the thread and give your reasons for disagreeing? I'm just genuinly interested why you think it's a bad idea. Absolutely no salt or hate on my side if you disagree with me!!! I just want to have a friendly discussion!

I've been playing on the EU1 TTT Minecraft only server for quite a while. Lately I've been playing more during the evening and late at night when the player count dwindles to around 5 to 10 players and when there aren't any mods around. Consequently, RDMers and Ghosters run rampant around these times. I won't talk about Ghosters for now, but I think there is a possible improvement to be made to the Karma system.

This improvement could lead to more Mass RDMers getting banned during the hours when there's little activity, which would in turn reduce the amount of RDMers during 'prime time' (hours when there's a lot of activity/lots of players). This would geatly improve the QoL for all the players playing during 'prime time', seeing as if for example the RDMer is banned during the night, players playing during the day wouldn't have any trouble with them for at least a while.

The change that I'm talking about, as you've probably already read in the title, is that a player's 'Karma' should not regenerate, meaning increase to a higher value, when said player has a 'T-round' or (Ts actually can RDM so they should also be able to regenerate karma) there is a 'fun round'. It should only increase when the player has an 'inno- or D- or T-round' and said player doesn't kill any fellow innocents or detectives or T-buddies.

The current issue with this system is that only the worst of the worst RDMers get Karma banned. They need to kill a load of innocents in as few rounds as possible to be Karma banned, because otherwise they would get the occasional T-rounds or (idem^^^) fun rounds to occur, which would, with the current system, let their Karma regenerate. Moderate RDMers are able to avoid getting Karma banned by just killing enough innocents to not pass the Karma ban treshold and let their Karma regenerate through T-rounds and (idem^^^) Fun rounds, so they just barely scrape by to next map where their Karma is always reset to 1000.

I've encountered quite a few of these 'moderate RDMers' during the night, which somehow never manage to get Karma banned. This leads to the common folk engaging in vigilantism and taking turns RDMing the RDMer, seeing as there are no mods around to punish these villains. I usually resorts to calling for help in the shoutbox on this site, as some of you may have noticed, but the call usually goes unanswered ;(

This change would only really be useful where there are no mods around, but having an extra countermeasure against RDMers when mods aren't around can't hurt!

Feel free to reply and give feedback! I want to know what you guys think about this!

 

If you mass RDM regardless, you will get banned. You can only kill a max of 5 of your T or Inno buddies in one map before you're banned, no matter what.

This also leads to the fact that in T rounds, you can still RDM your T buddies. So why wouldn't it replenish on these rounds as well?

The leniency is there for accidents that occur. Obviously if you're intentionally RDMing, you will be dealt with one way or another.

And if you do see people RDMing several times on the servers, you can report them in-game, and will be handled when a mod comes online, or here on the forums.

 

I can say for certain that this is not always the case. I've seen people RDM more than 5 people over the course of one map, because their Karma regenerated during 'fun-rounds' and their 'T-rounds'. Unless this system isnt in place for the EU1 TTT Minecraft server....

I don't quite understand your point here. It should indeed not replenish. When Ts kill innocents their Karma does not degrade. Therefore, their Karma increases during that round because they didn't RDM. So when RDMers get a T-round, they gain Karma points, because their kills don't count as RDM. If a T kills his T-buddy, his karma should also degrade.

The points I made in my post is that all players shouldn't regain karma during their T-rounds or fun rounds. During T-rounds the Ts get karma points and during fun-rounds everybody gets karma points, not because they didn't RDM, but because they couldn't RDM. You are however right when you say that Ts can RDM their T-buddies, but I think the pros outweigh the cons with my proposed improvement (heavily biased though ;p).

This change wouldn't affect leniency, it would only affect the amount of mistakes you're allowed to make during one map rotation. Occasional accidents are fine if you balance them out with 'clean rounds' with the current system and it would be the same with my 'improved' system. So leniency shouldn't be affected.

I wasn't aware that absolutely all reports made during the night are stored and dealt with in the morning. Could you please confirm whether that's the case or not? Because I've seen players I've reported for Mass RDM, during the night, playing the next day.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

Not really...They're able to RDM, so if they don't, their karma goes up. That's just how things should work.

That's literally decreasing the leniency. You're proposing karma bans be more strict, therefore less lenient.

No, it's not. However, reports on the forums are always dealt with. Reports in-game are held up to 2 maps I believe. You also have to take into account that what seems like RDM might not be

I can tell you for a fact I would have twice as many Karma bans as I do now (and I have 60+) if this change was implemented, but I hardly ever RDM.

The Karma ban system currently in place is strict enough

-1

 

The karma system is harsh allready, if you kill an inno while inno at full health it chuncks away well over 100 of your karma, so killing 4 people at full health will get you Karma banned, but here is the issue with Karma bans, they only last 1 hour. If you witness a player rdming it is best to make a formal report in the forums with evidence, damage logs and reports alike as well as their steam ID. Doing this you can contribute to getting a player banned for more then an hour if your report is found valid by the staff investigating the report.

 

I think you're not quite understanding what I mean when I say Karma shouldn't regenerate during T-rounds and fun-rounds, so I'll try to explain it a bit more clearly.

When player X has a T-round and only kills innocents, his karma increases at the end of the round. Not because he didn't RDM, but because he couldn't RDM. A T randomly shooting Innos does not decrease the T's karma, while it would decrease the karma if the T was an inno. This means that if an RDMer gets a T-round, after RDMing three guys in the previous round, his karma would increase again at the end of his T-round.

Same thing with fun-rounds. Everybody's karma increases at the end of the rounds, because not a single kill will count as RDM.

You're probably thinking that I'm saying that NOBODY'S karma should regenerate at all! But that's not what I'm proposing!

 

I understand what you are saying, and it is far from true that a T does not have degenerating karma. I personaly lose more karma on T rounds then inno rounds because my C4 will kill a T buddy or a T trap kills one. You can deffinatly rdm on T rounds and lose Karma. Your suggestion punishes everybody who accidently kills an inno that may not be rdm, they may witness someone killing someone and kill them back, there goes a chunck of karma and they were following the rules. I see the good intent in your sugfestion but it punishes more then it helps. T rounds and fun rounds alike are ways for the players who make an oops to regain karma.

As i said in my previous statement that the best way to help you and help the server durring these periods of inactivity would be to report them on the forums as a karma ban only lasts an hour, a mass rdm (4+) is 5 days first offence.

 

Ah whoopsie! I actually thought that Karma bans lasted 4 days for some reason... However, I still feel like some RDMers just don't get banned at all because their karma keeps regenerating form their T-rounds and from the fun-rounds. My idea is that a person's karma can't increase if they have a T-round or fun-round. Karma is used to punish innocents that RDM other innocents, but if that's the case, karma shouldn't be affected when said inno has a T-round or fun-round. Why should their karma increase if they aren't able to RDM, while they would if they could?

On the note of making formal reports on the forums. Do screenshots of players making bogus/rude/offensive responses or admitting to ghosting in chat count as evidence? I've encountered a few players that just plainly said: "There are no mods so we can do what we want." "We're breaking every single rule and you can't do anything about it!" So I'm wondering whether I can use that against them.

 

I understood everything you said. It still makes just about 0 sense. T's can RDM. I have no idea what you mean that during their round their karma increases because they couldn't, because they can
I get they can't RDM Innos. What is your point here. Innos and Detectives can't RDM T's they saw commit a T act, so...?

Rude, sure, if it classifies as harassment. Admitting to ghosting isn't always evidence unless you have a direct screenshot of it occurring. Anyone can say they ghosted, doesn't mean they'll be banned.

Again, saying something and acting on it are two completely different things.

 

It's true that the common folk are also going to be punished by this, but RDMers are able to use these regenerating points as a loophole as well. Now one can argue whether the common folk deserve harsher rules because of said RDMers and I guess I'll agree with you that don't. This is actually more of an issue during late hours when there are few people and no mods, so as you said, this change would have a negative impact during the busy hours when there are lots of people.

 

My complete oversight of the fact that Ts can indeed RDM means that my argument against regenerating karma points during T-rounds is a no-go. I'll edit my original post accordingly.

However, you missed my argument against the fun-rounds. Should Karma regenerate in a round where nobody can RDM?

 

Yes, you see, fun rounds are there for everyone to relax a little from ttt and its serious gameplay, so we allow for some relaxation on karma too.
-1 from me

 

I am presently at work, if you are interested, you may start a conversation with me and I will gladly help you out with filing reports and ways to do it, I remember the times of "No mods No rules" clearly. Allow me to help you make the server a better place for everybody. Mods can not always be on durring these toxic hours so I am more than happy to share my tricks for getting rdm'rs reported to staff so they do not get brushed under the rug. I will be home in 2 hours if you wish to persue this.

 

In my entire tenure as a member of this community, if a player truly plans on Mass RDM-ing, he either gets banned first by the staff member in the server or gets banned by the Console (Karma ban).

The main reason why I disagree here is that, tenured players have more experience and more rule knowledge that new players may not have so they most likely will commit more action in game. Veteran players as innocents, have a much more high tendency of killing their fellow innocents simply because those innocents are new players that are not familiar with the rule set of our community (map-based T acts, walking over unid, etc.). Also, (not implying anything) but mechanically good players might be punished severely by this. In a theoretical scenario for example, if a high skilled player would see a gun fight involving 3 players, it is not a long-shot to say that the said player will be able to kill all of those 3 players, just because of the skill difference. What if all of them were innocents? All of his kills would be valid but his karma would go down drastically. Now, with your system, if he gets a Traitor round, he cannot "redeem" himself of those karma losses. This both makes their game less enjoyable and would be a waste of honed in-game skill and rule set understanding, per se.

 

Fair point, but again, I hardly ever RDM yet I managed 60+ bans from low karma. Fun rounds are rare enough for them to not matter much, but it's still good to have that leniency

And again, if someone joins the server with mal-intent to simply Mass RDM everyone they come across, chances are 20 karma re-gain from a fun round won't do much to help them

And as for the general concept, karma bans are simply an hour long and server-side, whereas Mass RDM bans are 5 days if 4+ people are RDMed. It's still better to report on the forums if you see this occurring, which you clearly do

 

Yes, I have seen the light. My 'improvement' seems less like an improvement and more like an impediment now. Excuse me for my ignorance...

I may take you up on that offer some other time, because it's currently 2am where I am... My only goal was to make our server a more enjoyable place by having a stricter karma system, but in my endeavours to do so, I completely missed that it could possibly negatively impact the other players on the server. If you have any tips that could help me get these whippersnappers banned, I'm all ears (or eyes).

You are absolutely right. Like I've replied to the qoutes above yours, I completely missed the consequences it could have for the other part of the playerbase...

 

Thanks for your reply. I had the misconception that karma bans actually lasted as long Mass RDM bans... Which means that even if my shitty 'improvement' was applied to the server, it would only prevent an RDMer from joining the server an extra nightly hour. I will do my best to report any Mass RDMers that somehow manage to avoid getting karma banned during these nightly hours.

 

Lets set up a date and time so I can help you with gathering evidence and properly reporting the people who would rdm. XD