Guilty-Crown false slay.

@Guilty-Crown

STEAM_0:1:53065181

West 2

12:30am-12:45am (PST)

False Slay

None

Scenario: The map was 67th way. I was trying to jump on to the gun shop roof. There was another person on the roof at the time I tried going up there. I jumped across the gap, but as I was jumping, the player on the roof moved to the only corner to land on, causing me to take fall damage. Under prop rules, it says:

• Pushing players close to ledges or near anywhere they can take damage.
• Pushing players off ledges to a point where they take fall damage.

Based on those rules I killed him for causing me to take fall damage. The player then reported me. In his report, he admitted to blocking the jump and in my response I quoted his statement. It was then about 4 rounds later that Guilty issued the slay.

I do not believe that Guilty's judgement in the situation was correct and for that reason, I am reporting him. Since I already asked Guilty for his reason to slay in game, I am requesting the report be looked at and responded by his admin, @The Seventh. Any other admin response would be appreciated.

 

I actually talked to @Krys about this and he agrees with my judgment for the most part. Now, if he chose to stand there for a while and prevent your access to the roof, then by all means, it would be justified. However, it happened as you moved, which means that he didn't stand there deliberately according to you.

He didn't use a crowbar or anything during that period. He just moved to where you were moving, and that resulted in what happened. That's why I considered your actions to be RDM. If you tried again and he did the same thing again, then I would have reconsidered since he might have been blocking you intentionally. However, you chose to kill him after the first damage, which causes problems because you don't know whether the player did it deliberately or not. It could have been an accident for all we know. Because of that, I chose to slay you for it.

Here's the steam conversation I had with Krys. Excuse my terrible question for like the first couple of messages.

Guilty-Crown: Hey Krys, can you help me answer a question?
Krys: I'll attempt to
Guilty-Crown: Yeah, sooo what happened was that this all happened in 67th way
Guilty-Crown: You know about the rooftop of the gun shop?
Krys: mhm
Guilty-Crown: So what happened was that a 2 players were trying to get on the roof and one person got on the roof and when the other tried to get on the roof, he was blocked
Guilty-Crown: When that happened, he killed the person on the roof
Guilty-Crown: Would that classify as RDM?
Krys: was blocking the reasoning he gave for the rdm?
Guilty-Crown: Yep
Guilty-Crown: And taking fall damage even though he wasn't pushed off
Krys: Okay so A got up top, blocked B, B takes fall dmg, kills A.
Guilty-Crown: Pretty much the scenario
Krys: How many times did he take fall dmg before killing B?
Guilty-Crown: Only once
Krys: Hmmmm
Krys: I mean, realistically its RDM on BOTH of them.
Krys: A for shooting B for blocking, B for making A take fall dmg.
Guilty-Crown: I don't know. Player A didn't really say he was blocking. He was standing next to the area, but player B took that as blocking
Krys: Oh I see
Krys: Basically one of them was standing in the way and he fell and took dmg
Guilty-Crown: I slayed player b, but he doubts my judgment and asks for an admin's judgment
Krys: I was thinking he got a prop and was purposely blocking.
Guilty-Crown: oh.... nah
Guilty-Crown: Sorry for the terrible phrasing/explanation
Krys: Well it might be slightly situation, due to just exactly WHEN that player stood there. Like say he gave the guy space then moved in as the other was jumping. Yeah thats purposely blocking.
Krys: But if the player was standing there and the other jumped then took dmg, thats his fault
Krys: I agree with slaying the person that shot for "blocking"
Guilty-Crown: Yeah
Krys: But unless he could prove it was malicious blocking, I don't think you can do much
Guilty-Crown: Yeah, I didn't see it so I went off the logs in that situation
Krys: Thats pretty much my opinon then
Krys: brb gotta dump
Guilty-Crown: kk
Krys is now Online.
Krys: k back
Guilty-Crown: Yeah, Truecatman decided to report me for it.
Guilty-Crown: You might want to check it out on the forums
Krys: Well you can copy paste this if you want, including this part and the me taking a dump.
Krys: As part of your response.

 

Hello TheTrueCatMan, it's great to see you're in great health.

You killed a player for blocking your path while jumping onto the roof and supposedly made you lose health because of it. I'm afraid your report is false because this isn't something you can kill someone for. True, you can kill if they cause you to lose health(or experience near death situations) via crowbar or props, blocking with their body is a different story in thi situation. If there was a C4 threat, yes, body blocking would be a kill-able offense. However, we can't prove that he did that on purpose because he could have just been walking around.

The main idea behind you not being able to kill him is that you can't prove it was of malicious intent unless you have video evidence. Even then, we still wouldn't allow you to kill him. That's because you decide when to jump and where to land. He might have blocked your path, yes, but it was completely your decision to take the jump. The roof on the gun shop also has a very wide view and it would have been easy to see if the risk of being blocked was present.

I'm sorry TrueCatMan, but my verdict on your report is that it is false.

Have a great evening,

POP STAR

 

"Krys: But unless he could prove it was malicious blocking, I don't think you can do much" The player admitted in his report that he blocked me from making the jump. His admitting would be proof of his malicious intent. He deliberately blocked me, that is malicious.

 

He didn't admit it. In the report, he said that he was standing next to it. That's not admitting to those actions. That just means that he was at at the wrong place at the wrong time. Unfortunately, I didn't take the screenshot of the report, but that's how it is.

 

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Am I expected to just keep jumping again and again? He blatently caused damage to me, there is no question about that, but because it was "wrong place at the wrong time" it makes it ok? Are you saying that wrong place wrong time is not considered accidental RDM? If you acknoledge that he damaged me, and that it was wrong place wrong time, then the only logical conclusion is that his body blocking lead to accidental RDM which according to the known rules is reason to kill him.

 

So does that mean that we slay every person who accidentally blocks you and that results in your death? So if we're jumping over an obstacle, but a person comes up to you during that period and blocks you, which leads to your death or losing health, we slay them?

There's some situations where we end up slaying people for accidental RDM, but considering this player did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as far as using crowbars or any props being used, we can't slay that person for that unless they keep on blocking you constantly on purpose. Why don't you understand that? You should know better considering you were a former moderator of these servers.

 

Yes, you should slay people for that since they are unintentionally damaging people! Accidental RDM is still RDM and should remain that way no matter what is used to damage the player.

And why is it now that every thing anybody ever says about me or anything I type, you Mods always bring up the fact that "You should know better considering you were a former moderator of these servers."? I get it! You don't have to bring that up every single time anything ever happens with me. I understand that I was a mod. Am I any more? NO! Leave that alone. there is no reason to keep reminding me that constantly.

So, let's say that we follow your logic. "we can't slay that person for that unless they keep on blocking you constantly on purpose." Are we expected to just keep jumping and jumping? How many times do we need to take damage from a player blocking until you can actually do something? I was under the impression that if a player causes any damage to another player, that is reason to kill, but that is clearly not the case in your world. Do I need to take damage three times to kill? Or maybe I need to take over 40 damage... Every thing you are saying makes it seem like you are bending every rule that you can just to prove what ever beef you have against me. "So if we're jumping over an obstacle, but a person comes up to you during that period and blocks you, which leads to your death or losing health, we slay them?" This is literally describing RDM. Is this not what happens on Island in the elevator? Where by BLOCKING a player, whether it be accidental or on purpose is still reason to kill and if innocent is RDM.

 

The problem is that we don't know if that player had any intention to block you. If it happened a second time, then maybe it would be a cause for concern. HOWEVER, you only did it once and decided to kill him for it afterwards. You've already had an admin explain to you that my judgment was NOT incorrect and yet you keep on doubting it.

You can only kill a player for blocking if you're in a situation where you could be killed. The elevator problem on island is one of those situations. That was explained to you already. Blocking with the body without the threat of C4 on top of the gun shop in 67th way is NOT a cause to kill someone for it. In fact, it's your fault because you chose to go to that area.

 

It shouldn't matter what his intentions were, he damaged another player. That is RDM. If it happened a second time, that is more RDM.

So by you saying this, "In fact, it's your fault because you chose to go to that area." If i threw a grenade, and it blew up, is it the players fault for standing there? NO! It is the player who threw the grenade, so you're saying that because I wanted to get up on the roof, it is my fault for being blocked and taking fall damage? You're logic is completely backwards for this, and it is for that reason why I disagree with your judgement. I not only don't believe in your judgement, but I believe that your current view of the rules is flawed.

RDM (Innocents/Detectives)

• Randomly damaging or killing other players.

That one rule should be enough to prove my case yet you still are firm on your belief.

FACT: If that player had not been standing there, I would not have taken damage.
FACT: Taking fall damage by cause of another player (Regardless of intentions) is reason to kill.
FACT: The player said in his report that "I WAS BLOCKING THE ROOF AND HE KILLED ME". Meaning that when you typed this: "Guilty-Crown: I don't know. Player A didn't really say he was blocking. He was standing next to the area, but player B took that as blocking" Not only did you LIE to Krys, but you manipulated the story to convince him that I RDMed. Because of you saying that, you changed Krys' judgement from
"Krys: I mean, realistically its RDM on BOTH of them.
Krys: A for shooting B for blocking, B for making A take fall dmg."
to "Krys: I agree with slaying the person that shot for "blocking"".

 

I didn't lie to him. That's literally what he said in his response. He was STANDING next to an area. I keep on telling you this, but now you're trying to twist my own words. Originally, Krys assumed I was talking about a prop blocking thing (if you read the conversation and it was like that in the beginning because I didn't describe it properly), but after that, he got to the point where I was at. Now, the player's response in the report was that he was standing next to an area and you happened to move towards it. Your assumption to think that I'm trying to change the direction of the conversation is grossly incorrect.

RDM only includes that rule IF IT WAS INTENTIONAL. We don't know if the player intentionally caused you to fall considering he didn't use a crowbar or any other weapon in that situation and the fact that you rushed to conclusions. That's what I'm telling you. If you're using that rule, then do we slay EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO DAMAGES ANOTHER PERSON then? Is that what you're seriously suggesting?

 

That is not literally what he said and you know it. grossly incorrect is also not how I would describe your lying, but you are so used to twisting stories, what ever floats your boat. How can you create a fair case if you can't "describe it properly". Of course he will get to the point that you are at since YOU are the one weaving the story that you yourself said that you didn't describe it properly. So if RDM is only intentional, then you are saying that EVERY accidental RDM EVER was a false slay. Whether the player meant to block the edge or not, it still caused me to take damage which fits PERFECTLY into that rule. Never once did I say to slay every single person who damages another and that is a blatant over exaggeration on your behalf. It only makes sense to punish the player who threw the grenade and not the player who walked into where it landed (referring to my last metaphor.) If you're using that rule, then do we not slay EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS EVER ACCIDENTALLY RDMED AND VOID ANY AND ALL PUNISHMENTS AGAINST THEM then? Is that what you're seriously suggesting?

 

I'm not taking sides, im just genuinely curious.

Isn't that what we already do...? I've been slayed for accidentally falling on someone and doing less than 10-20 dmg. It was an accident but I was still slayed. This happens all the time I think thats the thing we are doing right now.

 

You're talking about goomba stomping. There was no goomba stomping involved in this.

 

Negative, I am saying that I have ACCIDENTALLY hurt someone and I still get slayed.

You said, "do we slay EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO DAMAGES ANOTHER PERSON"? So I am just confused because I thought thats what already happened.

 

OK, apparently, I'm not phrasing properly, however, your damage shows up in the logs. HOWEVER, there are no instances of damage being done by player B in this situation.

Do we kill player B because he unintentionally blocked at that situation? We can't prove that player B was blocking player A in the situation. That's the problem.

Sorry for the bad statement. I'm doing more than one thing right now and during that period.

 

Goomba stomping looks like:
Henrysaur [detective] has damaged Edgar Allan Poe [innocent] for 215 damages with falling or prop-killing

Using a Crowbar or other means looks like:
ZiTrOzZx [innocent] fell and lost 33 HP after being pushed by Coconut Head [traitor]

Falling without being touched or in any way dmg being credited to someone:
NG|Rangers831 [traitor] fell and lost 318 HP

The last one is what should show up on the logs if someone physically blocks your jump path and you fall.

 

No no, thanks for clarifying. I was just confused and curious

 

The problem with all of that is that the player, in his report said "I WAS BLOCKING THE ROOF AND HE KILLED ME". That, should be sufficient enough proof that he caused the damage.