Trial Mod xTimmonZ killing Inno and not slaying himself

Starting this thread for RS-Josh and because I don't like admins who don't believe the rules apply for themselves.

Playing on 67th way around 1:05AM EST 5/21

RS-Josh said suspicion on "mah'(don't remember the rest of his name)" as he was the only one near a guy who got hurt by an explosion.

RS-Josh kept an eye on said suspect and as they got alone, the suspect activated the pool trap and quickly turned around. That's when RS-Josh very clearly and loudly stated on mic "YEP KOS MAH'...(rest of name)" as he started shooting him, they walked towards the street and I started shooting him. I killed the Mah' guy and while walking towards the body xTimmonZ shot Josh BEFORE the body was even ID'ed.

He then slayed RS-Josh for killing Mah' because "watching him activate a trap isn't sufficient enough proof because people (can) activate traps from across the map" (which personally I've never even heard of and sounds like exploiting to me).

So even if that is so, xTimmonZ still never slayed himself for killing RS-Josh before we ID'ed the person he called the KoS on who WAS a terrorist because HE DID activate the pool trap.

Several minutes before I started to type this xTimmonZ karma was in the 700s, if that gives you any idea on his methods. I've been slain a few times for walking into the end of a firefight and killing a guy before he ID's and he turns out he was the inno and the dead one was the T.

I don't think people who can fairly punish themselves for one round should become mods, and seeing as he's a trial, I think it's best to be nipped in the bud, especially if he has a previous noted history. It should also be noted this is my first night having any encounter with xTimmonZ, when I stopped playing GMod a couple-few months ago I'd never even heard of his name.

Thank you.

edit: typo

 

Hello @LeviXLush ,
@xTimmonZ will respond at his earliest convenience. Thank you!

 

I support this 100% obviously.
And to add to all this, for consecutive rounds xTimmonZ killed Inno's right after killing a T. His only excuse was because they were shooting, so he killed them, or they were by an unId'd, so he killed them. Now of course I mentioned this and stated why I thought his logic was flawed but he was firm in his belief that his double standard of slaying people was according to the rules.

 

Thanks for the swift response, @Chrissyleecious.

 

I'd like to state that I was on the server for this, but away from the computer at the time.

Considering there were already accusations made against me for not slaying him in bias, and that I was not there to witness any of this; I'm going to hold my opinion to myself. I will however state that I was the person to inform LeviXLush where to make a report on the forums, if he had evidence and felt what xTim did was unjust.

As for my perspective in this, I came back into game a couple rounds later to a vocal debate about this. Considering there was no report made, I could not make any determination about what actually happened. Even if there was a report made, it presumably would've ended as a word versus word case. I.e: Why I directed Levi here.

edit: I'd just like to note for references sake, xTimmonz is only a Trial Moderator and does not have the ability to slay himself even if he wanted to. With that said -from the scraps gathered- xTimmonz side to the story was very much different, and he felt he did not deserve a slay.

 

@Books was with me for several games (including the game on 67th , but he was afk for the two rounds that these shenanigans occured.) He did, however, look at the reports that were sent to us and slayed the people that I had suggested for him to slay.

However, the report against me wrongfully states the chronological order of these events.

The first event that occurred happened when I killed an innocent who had just shot somebody on the street. These two, along with one other player, decided to harass me for being unfair by not "slaying myself" for this act. In the rules, it is states that shooting towards another player is traitorous. We deal with reports just like this all of the time and wave them off because it is justifiable.

The second event to occur happened when I was already dead, and I was merely reacting to something stated by a RS-Josh (and responding to a report against said player). The report indicated that RS-Josh killed a Traitor with little-to-no evidence and merely killed him for suspicion. This was proven true when RS-Josh himself stated "I killed him because he turned around and activated the ball trap near the pool." Therefore, he was slain for killing on suspicion - You CANNOT kill someone for allegedly triggering a trap.

Later in the game, which their report fails to even mention, I killed another innocent (which is why my karma was circa-700 by the end). This kill happened when I turned a corner, found an unid body next to a player who was previously-active and now was not moving. I killed the player for being beside an UNID. This player reported me, but obviously I was doing what should have been done - and he agreed with me once I explained the situation.

Overall, this game was just sloppy with harassment because the two players could not admit that my actions were justified. The one time that I actually was somewhat in-the-wrong, I told @Books to slay me. The player (Chubs) that I had killed messaged me saying that I didn't even deserve the slay because he was T-baiting, but I explained to him that I had reacted too quickly to the situation, and it was my fault. I literally had to beg him to be fine with me being slain for it.


TLDR; Every one of my actions was justified and the two failed to listen to my side of the story. There were others in the server that supported each of my actions.

 

@xTimmonZ You just took the main focus of why I'm here and mashed it up and put it into "first event" and "second event", which in "second event" you're already dead...? I'm confused.

Plain and simple, RS-Josh called suspicion on someone, when he and that person were isolated, he SAW him activate the pool trap (there's no "allegedly" about it) and the guy turned and started running towards the road. He clearly called out a KOS on him and started shooting him. I assisted as soon as I saw the gunfire and I am pretty sure I got the kill shot. As I went to ID the suspect, BEFORE I could even ID to prove RS-Josh was right (even though he saw him set the trap), you shot RS-Josh..then you slayed RS-Josh because again as you said "watching someone set a trap isn't KOSable because people 'can' set traps from across the map" --which I've never heard of such a thing, sounds like an exploit. The rules apply to everyone and by right you KoS'ed an innocent who called KOS on a T that he witnessed set a trap right in front of him and then run away!

 

Still pleading ignorance, I see. I'll let an admin deal with this because he refuses to acknowledge my side...
1. You can't "watch" somebody set a T trap. It's invisible to you, after all. He may have looked in the direction, but it doesn't mean it was him. It's just suspicion.
2. My kill on RS-Josh was because he did not shoot until he was at the street, right in front of me. He shot, therefore I was (by server rules) allowed to shoot him.
3. I am not exploiting. I can't even administer slays to individuals - @Books had to approve of each slay that I told him to make. I wasn't even reported for killing RS-Josh, so I'm not sure why you're getting this involved in that scenario.

EDIT: Whether the pool scenario happened while I was alive or not, he was reported for killing on suspicion. That's a whole different story than the reasoning behind why I killed him.

 

@xTimmonZ I believe it is you who have these events in the wrong chronological order. Your "first and second event" are the same event. I called suspicion on "Mah" for being the only one in the area of a sniper shot, I then followed him all the way behind the house, we were both alone and he clearly turned around to activate the trap to try and kill me. So I then called him out as a T and started to kill him, he ran into the street with everyone shooting back at me, and that is when you killed me and not the traitor I had called out. That is when I tried to tell you about your double standard. How you killing an inno after they called out a traitor is a slayable offense espically when the person they called out was in fact a traitor. You went on to defend your opinion by stating if I see someone shooting I kill them. Well if everyone played like that a whole mess of people would be slain for killing innos trying to kill T's, but not you.


Edit: I didn't report you because you verbally said you would not get slain because you were "Justified" why report a mod who will just ignore it.

 

xTimmonZ, the trap activated, RS-Josh SAW the effect of trap and called KoS on him and you still killed RS-Josh..why do you keep ignoring the tidbit where he called him out?

and you told us in game that people can activate a trap from across the map (not sure how) so that's not a good enough reason to call KoS. I never said you exploit, you really need to read this discussion more thorough, it makes it seem as if you aren't taking this seriously.

 

@xTimmonZ I am confused I thought you said you were dead when I went after "Mah" for being a T.

"The second event to occur happened when I was already dead"

We are not arguing whether or not I should have been slain for attempting to kill the traitor.
The argument is should you have been slain for killing me, and killing a countless number of innos

 

In reply to this edit: Of course you were alive....how are you not sure all of the sudden when you're the one who killed him?

You just said "whether I was alive or not" and "why I killed him" within two sentences..........

 

He saw the effect of the trap, but he cannot PROVE that it was Mah that triggered the trap. Whether he called him out or not doesn't actually matter for this scenario. I did not see the name of the guy that RS-Josh was shooting at when he got to the street, nor did I look at the name of the shooter until I had killed him. Either way, he shot a person and is therefore committing a traitorous act. If you have ever dealt with reports before, you would know that slays do not occur when a person shoots at somebody who had previously shot another person.

In response to this, I merely laugh because this IS a rule. (Whether it is an unwritten or written rule, I'm not sure).

In response to the chronological order, it really doesn't matter very much. If they were two separate rounds or one round the same actions would have been taken.
1. RS-Josh would be slain for calling KOS(and killing) on suspicion
2. I would not be liable for the innocent that I killed because I witnessed him shoot another person.

Any staff member will agree with me on those two points. - So I'm done responding to this because quite frankly this is pointless to argue about. Rules are rules. They must be followed.

 

The accused player was the only one at the pool with RS-Josh.......and he ran away immediately after setting said trap.......and you shouldn't of killed Josh until I ID'ed the body.

It wasn't suspicion, he saw him do it...you're the one who made a claim that people can set a trap from 'across the map".

Honestly I think you're so full of your own bullshit which is why you keep contradicting yourself and I'm at the point where if people like you stay in a position of power, I'll just have to avoid the servers and spread the word.

I'm sure this will be viewed this afternoon, and I think your scrambling of you story multiple times is proof enough you can't get your story straight. If you can't slay yourself for one round because you killed an inno before we ID'ed a suspect, then personally I don't think you belong in a position of power. Never had this issue with others before, because they'll slay themselves or have someone slay them if they're unable to, but you're one of the people if given the chance when no other mods are around, you'll abuse your position and not give yourself equal punishment. As any admins know abusing power/not treating yourself as an equal because of your power is one of the most crippling things to online communities.

 

So let me clear this up, your stating in your previous post that anyone is able to kill ANYONE shooting regardless if they following a KOS on a T?
I would like an actual staff member to comment on this discussion, it seems like you are not understanding our point of view, and simply keep repeating "HE SHOT, I KILL"
Let me be clear, me getting slain is not part of the issue, the issue remains that you yourself did conduct slayable offenses and even when people confronted you about that you remained adamant that you will not be slain.

 

I could be mistaken, but I don't see the three of you coming to an agreement on your own.

Due to this, I'm going to go ahead and tag @Krys in this; xTimmonz's Administrator. He will respond at his earliest connivence, presumably by tomorrow as he's currently asleep. From there, a final verdict will be decided.

 

1. You may never KOS for T traps under any circumstance because of how easy it is to activate them through logs and because we cannot read the T-traps in logs.
2. Yes, You can shoot anyone shooting another player even if they are following a KOS, it is up to you to decide if it is the right thing to do.

 

To clear some thongs up here:

You cannot kill players for activating traitor only events; that means they are only visible to traitors. Most of these events can be activated from rooms away and a plaster cannot kill someone for simply looking I the direction of said event.

I also want to point out that if Timmonz killed you because you were shooting at someone, whether you called them out or not, it's not RDM; traitors call false KOS's all the time while firing at someone. The bottom line is that, even though it sucks when it happens, you can be killed for shooting a traitor, because you are committing a traitorous act as stated I the server rules.

 

That's funny because I've been slain in the past before for killing a survivor of a gunfight who turned out to be an inno before he ID'ed the dead body and I was told I "should've waited for the body to be ID'ed to see if it was a T".

If this server is gonna start rolling where people with mod status are gonna get immunity I'm outta here.

 

Rules sound pretty contradictive, IMO.