Clarification of Traitorous Acts

I think players that want to kill people for just shooting on large maps just need a little more situational awareness. It's not difficult to know if someone is actually shooting at a person or not.

 

It's not for "just shooting". Please read my post. There are conditions that need to be met.

 

It is for just shooting. Just because you assume there is a person where they are shooting doesn't mean you can kill them.

 

Okay Mango I understand that with the current rules it's considered RDM. Why are you against this simple change? Is it to protect innos? Why would an inno be shooting across the map with a sniper rifle?

 

Why does it matter? Is it because you shot someone that you assumed was shooting at someone and were slain for it? Players mis-click and get rounds taken away from them because some trigger-happy player doesn't possess the situational awareness to know that they aren't doing something traitorous. There shouldn't be a "Well, I thought he shot at someone" rule where players could just assume a person did something traitorous. Just don't assume and try to figure out a situation before opening fire. It's really what separates good players from great players.

 

GreenGawblin, like I mentioned in game, these are our current rules. If you would like to change these rules or suggest a change, please do this in suggestions and/or speak with any of the admins, lead admins or @Highwon himself.

 

What do you mean why does it matter? Have you read any of the other posts here? There is debate on this issue and other admins/mods have said it's KOSABLE, while others agree with you. Coming to a general consensus on the issue will certainly help everyone. And yes, players misclick all the time. Just the other day I was a detective and a player fired a deagle near me. He claimed it was a misclick, but for all I know he could have been a traitor trying to pull of a head shot, so I shot him. I have 200+ hours on this server and I've seen many situations where someone is sniping from the bookshelf or lighthouse, and they are gunned down. You claim that it's "situational awareness" to know if someone is actively trying to snipe someone or not. I claim its common sense that someone who is shooting shooting a sniper rifle across the map is actively trying to kill someone, or is trolling and trying to get someone slain.

EDIT: Yes Rice I see what you're saying. I'll post this in the suggestion forum. Alternatively if this could be moved that would be great as well.

 

Common sense would tell you that you should probably look around to see where a person is shooting before making the assumption that they are actually shooting at someone. I have over 500 hours on this server with 90% of them as a staff member and when someone is "gunned down" for shooting on one of the larges maps, they are shooting towards other players, which is traitorous.

Just don't make assumptions. I don't think a rule change is needed.

Common sense:

Players shoots towards, not near, another person=traitorous.

Players shoots to area where it's unknown if they are shooting towards someone or just shooting=not traitorous.

 

Okay as it stands currently the other player could just lie and claim that they saw them shooting towards another player. How would you combat that? If the rule stands as it currently is, that just means more reports that need to be dealt with that would end up no one being slain. Again, shooting with a sniper rifle across the map is either trolling or someone trying to shoot someone else. Can you give me reasons why someone would be using a sniper rifle to shoot across the map? The only other one I can think of is miss-clicking, which again, can still get people killed as I mentioned earlier.

I' not saying that just shooting should be KOSABLE, that would make no sense. It's the fact that its with a sniper rifle, across the map, that should be KOSABLE.

EDIT: Another way to think of it, why are discombs KOSABLE? Because they can knock people off ledges and cause fall damage. They don't actually have to knock someone off a ledge or cause fall damage, they just have to be thrown to be KOSABLE. I'm willing to bet that more people are killed by sniper rifles than discombs, so why are these discombs KOSABLE when thrown ANYWHERE, yet sniper rifles (fired on large maps ACROSS the map) not?

 

Players have free will, they can shoot the sniper anywhere they want to. They do not need a reason for that. Now, like mentioned a few times if they happen to be shooting AT another player they can be killed for it.

 

Actually, you are saying that just shooting is traitorous. How would you know what they are shooting if you don't actually investigate it? Like Rice said, players have free will and don't have to explain to someone as to why they are shooting. I shoot random areas of the map all the time, such as the people outside the windows on Teen Room, Barrels on rooftops, and Posters on Dolls; all of these shots are from a long distance, but because it's not traitorous, I shouldn't be killed for it. Players shouldn't be so trigger happy and try to make better judgement.

Slays already can't be issued if we see a player firing before they are killed. However, in your situation, you said that you killed him for shooting somewhere where you thought there were people.

Players will be slain if their reason that they killed them because they shot where they assumed there was someone.

Players will not be slain if they had a legitimate reason to kill them; shooting towards someone.

We can only issue punishments if there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. If there is any reasonable doubt, then staff cannot issue a punishment.

Sure, when I started, I thought kind of the way you did and was explained reasons why it was traitorous and saw the logic in the rules; I was still slain for my mistakes, because I was wrong. However, I am trying my best to explain it to you and am getting nowhere. I am finished with this conversation as I am clearly getting nowhere.

 

For the last time just "shooting" isn't traitorous. If you're shooting with a HUGE or a M16 at the window, then it's clearly obvious that you aren't shooting at anyone. Go ahead and set up the weakest argument for my side that you can make and defeat it just to feel correct.

Could the rule use refinement? Absolutely. That's why I'm asking for opinions.

Other mods/admins seem to share the same view-point I do, and I agree that the current rules do consider it RDM. But that's just it, I do think an exception need to be made.

You state that it's an assumption to kill someone who is sniping across the map if you don't know what he's shooting. Absolutely Mango, I totally agree with you.

However, you fail to address why this rule change would be a bad idea. Instead you argue that because its an assumption you are in violation of the rules for killing someone which is what the current rules state, and I've agreed countless times. I'm suggesting to make it so that it's no longer an assumption to kill someone for sniping across the map (within reason firing a scout at the window across the map isn't reasonable at all, please dont use that as your argument). It should be the same thing as throwing discombs.

 

It would be a bad idea because it's not traitorous and shouldn't be traitorous just to shoot; that is the foundation of your suggestion for the rule change.

Throwing discombobs is traitorous, period. Discombobs can throw players up into the air to land and cause significant damage to them, even on a map without any drops; they can also throw props and kill people.

We should never kill someone based on the assumption that they committed a traitorous act. Once you start doing that, you blur the lines of what you are allowed to assume.

The mods and admins could read my statements and see why they would be wrong to agree with you. Keep in mind that none of the ones that agree with you have been staff as long as I was. The rules are black and white right now and there shouldn't be a need for specific stipulations.