Completed Report against Chris

Name of Staff/Player:

Chris​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

STEAM_0:1:16729819​

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:1:39822842​

Which Server:

West 2​

Which Map:

Terrortrain​

Which Round:

5 rounds from map change​

Time of Occurence:

Around 3:30-4:30​

Reason For Report:

Chris RDMed me by not sufficiently warning for a jihad. I recorded the event and checked the rules and believe that it was RDM, and that his warning was not sufficient. He did not slay himself, and when I confronted him, he insisted that it was not RDM, and that his warning was sufficient. Despite this I feel it was not, and that Chris was being dishonest by not admitting his mistake in this situation and simply slaying himself.​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

Edit: Switched up the video files, so they were edited to be in their correct place and the titles are incorrect.


This video shows me walking out of a room, seeing chris activate a jihad, then running to try and avoid it. Chris warns only as he is activating the jihad, not any time before, and I can both see Chris and am in range of damage when he warns and activates the jihad at the same time. After dying I didn't know if he had warned, so I reported saying the following:



I do not have a screenshot of his response, so I won't try to quote what it said. What matters more is the conversation we had following this, and the evidence I have.


This video shows the full round to avoid any suspicion that he had warned at any time before the first video begins.

After the report was marked complete and it was clear he was not slaying himself, I checked my recording to check who was correct here. I did not initially want this to go so far and just felt he was mistaken about a decision, and was correcting him. In response, Chris claimed he warned prior to activating the jihad and that I was far enough away that the warning was sufficient.



I still felt Chris was mistaken and wanted the RDM to be dealt with, so I told Chris I had evidence that he was wrong. I kept trying to be polite, since yelling and swearing at a mod doesn't get you anywhere.



Chris says that in his recording, I was far enough away for the jihad not to damage me. It's worth noting that from my perspective I never saw Chris ever look in my direction, so I'm unsure how he could know from his recording where I was at when it was activated.



Chris claims I had time to react to his warning. As you can see from the video, I did not.



I tell Chris what I can see from my own recording, and reference this (http://imgur.com/a/ag2bl) section from the extended rules about warnings. He repeats what he said in the last messages.



At this point I was frustrated that he kept denying that he had RDMed, but I was not so frustrated that I felt the need to report. This obviously changed after he continued to deny RDMing, which led me to feel a report was necessary.



Chris then repeats the claim that he had warned prior to activating the jihad, although he hadn't. He also claims that I started walking towards him after he had warned, which you can see from the recording is also not true. I don't know whether what he says about trying to avoid me is true.



I respond that none of his claims are backed up by my recording, and tell him that I was walking in his direction well before his warning.



Chris then stopped responding for a while. I wanted an explanation from him that was not refuted by my recording, so I asked if he had any response to me.



He responds and tells the story from his perspective. It's true that I did not hear his warning the first time, but he still only warned as he was activating his jihad. Then he repeats that I only started walking towards him after the warning, which isn't true.



I asked if he thought there was some warning prior to activating the jihad that I didn't hear the many times I checked my recording.



Chris says that I already admitted I heard his warning, which is true. But that warning was far too late and insufficient.



I tell him that I only heard an insufficient warning and no others. I then momentarily forget that I didn't hear the warning while playing.



I then remembered that I hadn't, and I corrected myself.



Once again Chris repeats that the warning was sufficient because I was out of range and he warned before he activated the jihad.



At this point I was pretty frustrated, so I clearly explained to him that he was incorrect, and that I had evidence proving he was incorrect. All I wanted in the beginning was an admission that he had made a mistake, and a slay for RDMing me, but he continued to refuse.



Chris stopped responding for a while, and again I messaged him to make sure I wasn't being ignored. He apparently didn't see those messages and asked me to resend them, which I did. (I was a bit harsh to claim you were ignoring me, sorry)





Chris seems to be finished with the conversation, and claims the report was invalid. I, understandably, ask for an explanation. (20 images is the max, so these last few will be links)

http://i.imgur.com/iQ7mKi3.jpg

Chris tells me he is done with this conversation, which I understand because this did go on for a while. He then goes on to explain his final reasoning.

http://i.imgur.com/6oaKNjP.jpg

His final verdict is that a prior warning was given that he felt was sufficient.

http://i.imgur.com/mkRKlax.jpg

I sent one last message which he did not respond to. This was the end of our conversation.

http://i.imgur.com/vrxHx96.jpg

I feel my evidence here is conclusive. You can see in my recording that I watched Chris activate his jihad and he only warned once as he was activating it. This is not sufficient, this was not prior to activating the jihad, and I was within damage range when it was detonated.

Chris RDMed me, and he refused to admit that he had. All I wanted was a single report to be handled according to the rules, but he would not listen to what I was saying and would not admit the things that I have shown proof of here. I'm not sure whether this would be classified as negligence or abuse, but regardless I feel like Chris was not being 100% honest by not admitting his mistake.

I won't fight the decision made here if it's not the one I want, but all I ask is that the evidence is considered thoughtfully and that any mistakes made are admitted, even if I am the one in the wrong here.​

 

Tagging @Chris. And his admin @Theinkern

 

Hello @Turtles - Thank you for taking the time to report me today, and I am sorry that you feel like your RDM report was dismissed improperly.

I will just jump straight into this, here's the video from my point of view. I have clipped it so that it shows the relevant section of the round.



As you can see in my video, I had a little look around, did not see anyone, said "Jihadding" and then activated my jihad to get the detective. In your video, my voice seems a little more delayed that in my video, I believe this is down to ping differences - But just after I activate my jihad, you suddenly appear in the window of the adjacent train carriage and jump into the window.

As this is both of our personal points of view, I went ahead and examined the death scene a couple of times to be sure. This is available here;



In this death scene, you can see that the Jihad is activated while you are stood in the door of the adjacent carriage, and after it is activated, you jump into the window - It was at this point that I noticed you there and attempted to move away, so I stood behind the detective in hopes of giving you a higher chance of recovering and moving away, but it seems like the range on the Jihad still managed to get you from that distance.

Upon reviewing the Deathscene, and since the warning was before the jihad was activated when you were by the door of the adjacent carriage, I deemed the report as invalid, as when the warning was in the Traitor voice chat, you were a safe distance away, and only moved towards the danger after the warning. I now feel like some ping issues may of been involved here since I am in the UK and the server was West 2, but I came to my verdict from examining the Death Scene.

I hope now that you can see why I came to the conclusion that the report was invalid, and I hope you can still continue to enjoy playing on our server's in the future.

Im going to retag my admin, @Theinkern to conclude this report and decide on a verdict.

 

It's clear from our recordings that there was a ping difference causing the confusion. About jumping into the window, I was heading that direction and reacted to the jihad as soon as I noticed it. I was still within range when the jihad was activated.

I also don't believe that a warning half a second before activating the jihad is any different than a warning at the exact moment of activation. The official wording of the extended rules is that the warning must be "sufficient" which this still wasn't.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, and your videos helped clear some things up. I see now why you did not feel the need to slay yourself at the time. However I still don't feel that this warning was sufficient, regardless of the differences between our perspectives.

 

Thank you @Turtles for taking the time to put in a report when you felt like something was not done right. As these reports help the community and staff learn better from potential mistakes down the road. As far as the report that you have made, I have reviewed the evidence and spoken to @Chris. The warning is no where near sufficient enough time to ever be considered okay for warning. After reviewing the footage he is still saying the warning while activating the jihad. This is no where near sufficient warning. Another thing to note, you still have to WARN even if nobody is near by you. The reasoning for this is because the t buddies can appear from no where at any time. If you give sufficient time for the warning they know to stay away from you and thus you avoid rdming your t buddy. You were correct turtles in that this was not fair, and chris should have slain himself as he did not give enough time of a warning.

Example of a good warning: At 00:52 I warn in traitor chat/voice and say "IM JIHADING THE MIDDLE OF TERROR TRAIN SPAWN GO AWAY!" and give ample time for my t buddies to get away so a few good secs and then activate my jihad at like 00:56 or later. The reason I give at least 4-5 secs AFTER THE WARNING, is because the human reaction time is 0.25 seconds. The time it takes to run away from getting damage or killed from a jihad is about 2-3 seconds (estimate) if you are right next to them. This would be a good example of a good warning. You can also warn even before hand as well. Just make sure if you warn before hand it is at least repeated a few times as a reminder. Personally as myself you can find a bind and bind to traitor chat saying that you are warning, as this helps you instead of sitting there typing a warning.

^ No this is not a new rule saying u have to wait exactly 4-5 secs. I am just stating a really good example of "sufficient" time to warn that is deemed fit to be a valid warning. Just be conscious of how you play, and that you give ample/sufficient warning time before committing anything that causes a type of splash damage (jihad, frag, gauss, ect.)

Again thank you turtles, any questions from anyone send me a pm.

Report: Valid
Thread: Locked