-Report VOIDED By Poster- /& T-Baiting Clarification

Name of Staff/Player: Killamarshall {CoNL}

Server: (Which server did this occur on? West, East) West

Time of Occurrence: (Make sure you include your timezone and map with round number if necessary) Now ( 6:45pm US Central)

Reason For Report: (What did he/she do?) Intentional/unintentional power abuse of mod ability - gag. Killa gagged me initially because i was explain how the rule "Firing TOWARDS a player (T-baiting)" -MOTD, did not consider firing into the AIR or at ones own feet (-90 degrees or +90 degrees from home [0 degrees, otherwise the center of screen] on the vertical axis) as traitor baiting, as I have had explained to me by both Server Admin Captain Vodka, Mod Pop Star, Mod Opouly (I started this behavior, of firing at the air or my feet after the mod Opouly had done to myself several times). I was gagged the first time (momentary gag w/ warning) while explaining this to other players on the server at the time, as they just killed me for doing so, using the "we warned you not to do it again" (which to my understanding is not allowed and is RDM) as excuse to shoot at me (I was an Innocent). They then said I was T-baiting, as i reported the killer for RDM. No slain was issued due to lack of evidence.

The problem here however is not that, that is merely the back story. The problem here is the next round I then asked the mods in @ chat what is the ruling for T-baiting. Since I was now being told two different rulings and I wanted a clear clarification of which one the the version I knew to be the CORRECT version, so that I do not make the mistake of breaking the rule again.

The two version of the T-Baiting Rule i have been told.
1.) Ruling from Cpt. Vodka, Pop Star, Opouly - shooting TOWARDS a player. Does NOT include at the air or ones own feet.
2.) the Ruling from Killamarshal - shooting in the VICINITY of a player. If i am near a player and i fire my gun it is T-baiting, No matter what direction I fired in. (This ruling was later backed up by Smithk47).
Both Killa and Smithk47 were mods/admins on at the time of the incident, as well as Cocoa Thundah {CoNL}.

After I asked in @ chat to the 3 admins, smithk47 responded via VOIP to explain what he believe to be the correct ruling. While smith was clarifying for me, as per my request I responded to smith using VOIP as well. When I did this Killa swifly gagged me, while i was trying to talk to Smithk47. I responded via VOIP rather than mod chat (@) because that is the way in which smith was communicating with me. So I in turn communicated back using VOIP.

Killamarshall then gagged me for a full round (as he already warning gagged me for VOIP spam). The difference is that this time I was not VOIP spamming. I was simply holding a coversation with a moderator on the clarification of a rule that I was having trouble understanding. Killamarshall abused his power (whether on purpose or due to lack of regard for my conversation with a mod, I do not know) to gag me, thus silencing my mid conversation with the Mod Smithk47 who was helping me.

Evidence And/Or Witnesses: (Screenshots/Video Recordings/Players That Witnessed The Event; See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2268) As most of what transpired was over VOIP there is only the retelling of what was said and some screenshots of what was said when I was gagged. The screenshots are posted on imgur.
http://imgur.com/X7IQf0O,Qr6gNxR,Hcuz06 ... ,I0mU56R#0

Witnesses are on the last screenshot, but I will also name them separately for those who do not wish to look at the screenshots. KillaMarshall (Admin, accused), Cocoa Thundah (mod), Smithk47(mod)



I was to make a side note. a P.S. of sorts.
1.) I honestly thought I was done with this section of the forums. I know I made several accusation when I was still quite new to the server and probably a bit of a "name" for myself. I will be frank, I was in a shitty way IRL and took my frustrations to the best place ever, the INTERNETS. Go figure. I therefore apologize to those I have troubled with the "stretched" reports I made.
2.)The reason I am making this report is NOT because i want to see killamarshall removed from Admin or mod, nor have it go against his record. A simply apology would be great. I made the report because to be frank, it is a pet-peeve of mine to be cut-off mid sentence and when you gagged me while I was talking to the mod for clarification on the rule that is exactly what it was. You cut me off and it was rude.Just...don't be rude. :| You want to cut me off by saying "shut the fuck up" great. go for it. Don't use you admin powers to do it though. Specially when it's uncalled for.
3.) I would like a clarification on the rule: T-baiting. What is it? because i'm getting two different stories, I just want to know which it is that away I don't do it. I prefer to walk the line, not cross it.





EDIT:_________

Just hopped onto East, asked the mods who were on at the time about the rule: T-Baiting. This is what they said...
http://imgur.com/a/lS1lV#0

Me to admins: Hey quick question, is it T-baiting to shoot at the ceiling/at your own feet?
BeastlyMcKinley: Knife (me) it is not
Nope Trash to me: No
Me to admins: even if you are near another player?
BeastlyMcKinley: As long as you are not shooting at or near him.
Me to Admins: Okay just clarifying
______incase you didnt not want to look at screenshots_____

See....this just confuses me further. what is the actual ruling? Is there a 1 size fits all rule? Or is it up to each individuals admin/mods discretion to change or modify the ruling as they see fit?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide on the matter.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

I was always under the impression that if you shoot, you can be shot, no matter where, and I think that's fair.

Personally if I see someone shooting at the roof or their feet, I won't shoot them. But I always shoot the person that kills them if the person shooting up in the air/floor turns out to be innocent.

I've walked up to people before and shot 90 degrees up and down, and they got scared and shot me, that's totally fine in my opinion.
Or better yet, they were walking towards the other way and I follow them and fire a colt/mossberg, they turn around and shoots me, fine also in my opinion.

Like in the maps like rooftops, you can never tell if players are firing into random areas or @ Players with sniper rifles.
90% of the time when I snuck up behind them, and they fire a sniper shot, I shoot them instantly.


Long story short, don't shoot unless you have a reason to.

As for the gags, he clearly warned you countless times.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

While I will not comment on the gags or anything, I will state that yes, traitor baiting is shooting towards a player. However if we get a report and weren't there to witness the event, there is no way we would know if the player shot the ceiling or towards a player, and without sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, we cannot punish a player.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

^This is exactly what I was going to say.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

I did just edit the post, as i asked some more mod on the East server.

Thank you all for your clarification.

In this particular instance there were NUMEROUS witnesses as they all fired upon me after giving me "3 warning" i filed RDM, no slay was issued because of the way Killa interprets the rule, no skin of my back tbh. I just want clarification.

As for the gags I understand Angel that he gave his warnings. My problem here is he gagged me AGAIN for a FULL ROUND while I was talking to a MOD about a RULE on the server that i DID NOT understand. I think he is in the wrong for doing so. Can i get other's opinions?

I am trying to remain unbiased. I am. Had I been in his position I would of gagged IF and only IF i was arguing or causing a problem with another PLAYER or MOD, but in this case i was NOT ARGUING i was simply talking about a RULE in which i didnt understand WITH a MOD, and was GAGGED MID conversation.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

Shoots logs can only prove so much, so if you shot before you got shot, and no one was able to witness(even if there was and you were firing into the air and what not), it wouldn't have been ruled rdm.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

Were you talking over the mic, in game and possibly taking away from the core gameplay for others?

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

@ MangoTango, Smith responded to my inquiry over VOIP at the preparing phase of Round 1 of a new map (so like 45 seconds or w/e it is), I started to respond to further clarify what he was telling me over VOIP (as that is the form of communication he was using). Mid response Killa gagged me.

So on the account of taking away from core gameplay of others I find this to be incorrect, in my opinion. It was preparing phase of the round. I was conversing with a Mod in normal speaking tones. I was inquiring about a topic both related to TTT and to the server.

@ Angel; I completely understand that. I do not know the extend of what the logs do and do not show. I do know that I did not fire at anyone, in log perspective no dmg to players. and I know there were multiple players (no staff) telling me to stop firing into the air or they would shoot me. Luckybug and 435(i forget rest of name but its on the screenshot of the player list) to be specific as to who was giving these warnings. Lucky was the killer in this case. Killa was the one who did not slay.

I don't know whether he had plenty reason to slay and chose not to, or simply not enough reason. I do not know what he heard/read/or saw. so I have to qualm with it. Really I have no qualm with them killing me. I just want to know what the ruling is for T-baiting, and why I was gagged as I was. The second gagging for a round. NOT the first, first was fully justified as i was talking over others on VOIP about how I had been explained the T-baiting rule mid round (in spectator chat since i was dead).

First gag, fully justified, second, NOT so much, imo.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

Regarding t-baiting.

You're always shooting a direction, even if you're shooting directly up or directly down, you're always facing a certain direction. Any player who get's the impression you attempted to shoot at them, because of the angle of your player model, may be prone to retaliating against you.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

@ Zikeji, I see.

So that I am to take from this; If I want to walk the line fine, but if someone shoots me because i scared em, don't file RDM. But if they shoot me I can shoot back yes?

Still would also like clarification if I am wrong for report for GAG or if it was unjust gag?

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

If he gagged you for trying to explain your side of the story then unjust, he most likely should've listened.

I would have to agree with Angel on the T-baiting thing. I have never shot at someone for shooting the Floor/Ceiling/Wall. Why? Because in doing so they're not harming anyone, However if they're shooting in an area that can potentially hurt someone, then I would most likely shoot them.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

I just think that people who randomly shoot things are trolls that try to cause mass RDM. The same with players that see them do it constantly and then shoot and kill them because they were possibly t-baiting; just looking for an excuse to kill someone.

Either way, the person that killed you lost karma, which is about the only punishment they could have received in this situation.

My theory is that it's always situational. As soon as someone shoots at a player, they can be killed, but I don't think I have ever seen a traitor actually traitor bait, so if you know you are innocent, then you shouldn't kill them; you are just asking to get shot in the face.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

Fair enough, thank you all for you input on the T-Baiting confusion i was having. From it I come to the conclusion shooting at the ceiling/floor is NOT T-baiting, but if I am shot for it I should not report for RDM because I am "trolling" essentially. Conversely I have the right to return fire if they dont outright kill me.

KillaMarshall, when you read this report, can i get your input on the matter of the Gag, currently my side of the story is the only side told. Thank you.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

To be honest i did tell you to that shooting towards and near players is consider a TRAITOROUS ACTS and is traitor baiting then i ended it then killa took over told you that it was token care of and to stop you kept on and you where gaged for it then i left to help out another mod on another server.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

T-baiting in general is pretty iffy, but is usually very general and is determined by "How close the were the shots?" I taught you my definition of T-baiting with a perspective of players always t-baiting me, and my reasoning for it was to prevent as much RDM (or potential RDM) as possible. I still believe T-baiting is very general, but it's somehow always very situational. I deem it T-baiting as "An offensive action towards a random player by means of provoking them."

It isn't by the book, but I feel it's most fair.

Thanks for being patient with the staff, Thumped.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

Nailed it i couldn't have said it better myself 50 points to Gryffindor

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

smithk47 this is not how it happened. sorry, but its not how the event transpired. I left the server to file this report well before you did. As proof that you were still on player list. You were telling me your version of T-baiting and I was asking questions to you over VOIP to clarify when Killa gagged me saying "stop"

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

You can shoot back, but if we start noticing a player intentionally getting players to attack him just so he can kill them, we will start slaying him. So don't do it to often.

And another thing I need to add, if a player clearly recognizes you're not offensively shooting, and warns you to stop or they'll kill you, that would be grounds for them to be slain. As long as a staff member witnessed it. The official rule is "shooting toward someone" as T-baiting, if you aren't and they warn you not to and then kill you, they RDM'd. But the flip side is, we try to not have to slay people who unintentionally RDM, and so shape our rules around it. If a player honestly thought he had gotten shot at, and retaliated, then I wouldn't want to punish them and I would only tell them to be "more observant" next time. It's a circumstantial scenario. But we're working on clarifying things.


As for Killamarshal, note this in the rules:
"Punishments are subject to change under an admin's discretion."

It appears to me Killa was just attempting to explain things to you, and so he gagged you. While this is acceptable, he stumbled in the manner of doing so and I'm certain he won't let it happen again.

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

n

 

Re: Report Against Admin - Killamarshall {CoNL}

I see, thank you for you input and swift response Zikeji, as well as to the others who have helped with the confusion.