Let's discuss some of the game rules, shall we? (Discussion Appreciated)

Several of the server's rules and the report system in general are silly and contradict themselves.

1. On The Rules Deciding What's KOS and What's Not:

That's really dumb. This game is about lying and deception (or it should be) and the detective work that comes with it.
So why does the SERVER decide how you play the game?

If you want to KOS someone for say:

a. following you after several warnings,
b. or a map-specific example, like turning off the lights on Clue (which can literally ONLY serve to make life more difficult for the innocents, by the way)

you need to be able to propose it to your inno-buddies, then decide as a team whether you should kill someone like that, It's incredibly poor form for the SERVER to decide what you're allowed to kill for. We are playing native TTT (with a few addons). We aren't playing some fucked-up TTT roleplay gamemode.

2. "Accidental RDM is still RDM"

Either have a report system or don't. Recently as a detective I saw someone stand next to and ID a body that had been killed twelve seconds ago. It had been crowbarred to death and I (wrongfully) assumed that he had crowbarred an AFK then switched to a primary and ID'd the body to make it look like he hadn't. I then shot the player who ID'd the body, because I thought it was beyond a reasonable doubt that he had killed him.

I was then reported for RDM. I quickly apologized for my mistake, and that I thought he was a traitor and I was wrong. I was then slayed because "accidental RDM is still RDM". Why the fuck even have a report system then? Like I said before, the game should be about deduction. I made a mistake in deduction and hurt myself and my team for it. The T's love to incite confusion, and they had by crowbarring an AFK and letting an innocent find the body just after the act.

I don't think I should have been slayed for making a mistake. If you are going to slay whenever an innocent kills another innocent, there is no point in a report system. Actual RDMers will be quickly dealt with when the dead person (people) make a big stink in the dead chat and use @.

3. "No claiming rooms"

Why not? If you announce it to the chat that this room is claimed, and that you'll shoot anyone who passes over the boundary once again, why does the server not allow that? You should be able to play this game how you want assuming it doesn't break serious rules (ghosting, RDM, etc.)

4. Traitorous acts section

Quick one here. "Having traitor weapons" and "Planting C4" as two different items on the list is redundant.

I encourage you all to discuss.

 

You're right, it should be "arming c4" since you can arm it without having it

 

1. You make the point about the players deciding the rules, and not the server. Go ask every player on the server what they think the rules should be. Have fun getting everyone's differing opinions. The server makes the rules for a reason, so there is structure and when someone joins the server they know EXACTLY what they can/can't kill for.

2. Accidental RDM is still RDM. You might forgive your friends, but what about the people that see you kill and their karma gets hurt because they didn't know it was an accident. What if they get killed and their round gets ruined cause you accidentally rdm your buddy and he kills you for it, and in turn gets killed for it?

3. Claiming rooms is silly, there's no point to section off an entire point of the map and hinder gameplay just because you want to kill people.

If you don't want to play by our rules, and want to make your own rules up on how you want to play: Make your own server. Can't do that? Find a server that has your rules.
This community has been going for 2 years due to this ruleset that tries to avoid things that are easily abusable.
I'm sure that these suggestions above have been posted before as well (maybe they're before your time).

 

That isn't even accidental RDM that's just RDM... the report system was used correctly in your scenario and I don't think it can be used "wrongly."

 

Hello,

My name is MangoTango and I am here to help you understand certain things you may not quite get. I realize that you have been a member for a very short time and our learning curve for players is a little steeper than other servers. Let's get started, shall we?

If players just went around killing for whatever reason they felt, then RDM wouldn't ever happen. If you say that this could be mitigated by letting all staff hold discretion, then the inconsistencies between staff members would cause discord among players. Having a set list basically saying "if it puts your life in direct danger, you can kill them" makes it better than having trigger-happy players shooting whomever they want because they feel threatened. This may be something that will take a bit of time to get used to, but once you get the basics of it, it's not too hard to figure out the traitors.

Let's be clear, here. Your RDM was not accidental. You intentionally shot someone and, while it may have been regrettable, it was still a kill on suspicion. Accidental RDM is what happens when someone misclicks or tabs back into a game or causes damage to a player completely unintentionally. If you notice, I went ahead and highlighted the two most distinguishing things in regards to RDM; intentions. However, anyone can claim accidental RDM based on a misclick and, based on that logic, not be punished for it; that's what we call a loophole and we try to eliminate those in the rules. Now, something such as a goomba stomp, which happens on occasion because the ladder system in Gmod isn't the best, that can be forgiven, because it's something that usually is easy to distinguish as intentional. Now, staff will report instances of unreported potential RDM, because sometimes players get damaged without knowing who hurt them; proactive staff members are what makes SGM great!

If someone walks into a room toward you, they're not endangering you. Shooting them would be RDM, because of suspicion. Basically, this is one of those moments where being a more conservative player makes you a better player. Players could find loopholes in this scenario easily by being in a high traffic area and slaughter anyone that comes through just because they came into my room? Honestly, that rules is easily loopholed and not needed; stay moving and stay alive.

I have to go with Noctorious on this one. However, my memory is foggy, but I cannot remember if the RDM manager logs state "MangoTango planted C4" or "MangoTango armed C4." However, once I place a C4, I don't have to arm it; someone else could come up and arm it, but never have actually "Had the traitor weapon of C4". Once I arm it, it becomes dangerous. However, since the logs register the actual placing down of the C4 and not necessarily the arming, then stating that planting it is traitorous is easily tracked. The statement may seem redundant, but it's just an easy way to mitigate trolls trying to loophole the rules.

Anyway, I hope you understand that Serious GMod is not your typical community and servers. Things here are done with very careful intentions to ensure the enjoyment of the servers by the majority of the players.

Thank you.

 

Thanks for the reply.

I really only feel like you addressed my "claiming rules" point though.

On your first point:

I understand that servers need rules: I'm not debating that.

However, this mod has developed a metagame on what's KOS and what isn't.

I think it's dumb to break off from that metagame and have unnecessarily restrictive rules. The karma system is there for a reason: if they KOS on something stupid, they lose karma.

On your second point:

You didn't really justify the report system. Like I said, the Karma system is there for a reason. If you kill someone based on your erroneous findings, then you lose karma. There's no need to report someone because they generally thought you were bad and killed you.

Your "losing karma" thing is kind of dumb. The only time karma loss is going to make a difference is when you're mass RDMing or when you blow something up and it kills people.

 

The thing is, how would you feel if you were just walking along and someone killed you because they thought you were bad because you had a shotgun and someone died to someone with a shotgun? Under your rules they lose a little karma, then next round a different player could kill you for the same type of thing. Repeat this enough time and you find people spend a lot of time not playing because it's too easy to be killed for things you were not around for. If the rules are too lose and the only punishment is a small drop in damage or a potential 1 hour ban it turns easily into a lot of frustrated players who then turn to revenge RDM because they feel they can

 

You guys realize RDM stands for *Random* Deathmatch right? As in killing at random without reason.

I killed with reason, I just happened

to be wrong.

Your definition seems to be wrong, but I can't really change a whole community's opinion on that.

 

Killing with reason means killing because of someone committing a traitorous act. You killed based off of suspicion which the victim saw as completely random. Try to look at it from the victim or someone else's point of view.

 

That whole argument is flawed.

"I killed him because I didn't like his face, that's a REASON" "I killed him because I thought the AK was a T-weapon, that's a REASON" "I killed him because he pointed a weapon at me, that's a REASON"

Actual arguments from players in-game. Sure you may have a REASON, but what makes this server great is not all reasons are valid ones. If i could kill for any reason, then there's no use in having reasons in the first place. We don't allow killing on suspicion because it ruins the game. There is less frustration in playing a traitor and getting caught via DNA sample or someone spotting you doing something obviously traitorous than to be killed because you ID'd a body that someone else had killed

 

Seems you guys want a perfect world in your servers and you want to break off from the part of TTT that involves deduction and making mistakes.

That's fine, but you just serve to alienate long time TTTers and bring in angry teenagers who want everything their way.

 

there are a lot of angry teenagers here, i guess school mustve let out just now

 

Like the ones who want to kill for any reason they want because it makes it easier on them than trying to find solid evidence on who the traitors are

 

Sounds like you should open your own server. You've got some excellent ideas that definitely would lead to long and healthy relationships within the server. People would always be happy and never get sick of the fun, and intuitive gameplay your rules would promote.
Also, anyone withing a 5 mile radius would develop Cancer.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I think that bringing players in that want to kill everyone for any reason isn't want we want.

We want all players to be able to play the game and be killed for legitimate reasons; like causing someone's life to be in danger.

Maybe you missed the title of SERIOUS TTT; it's not just some fancy thing we flaunt around.

It's odd that we have plenty of long time TTT players that come here for refuge from being killed for the most ridiculous reasons there are.

All in all, I think SGM will do just fine.

 

Glad to see the insults fly around without any discussion. Good post!

 

Can a mod get rid of this or something? No point in keeping it up if everyone is just going to passive aggressively vote my posts dumb and only a few of you actually contribute.

 

You should expect that when you say things like this:

 

They won't get rid of it. They can lock it.

Let this serve as an example and a lesson learned for everyone.

 

Thanks for actually contributing and not just blindly voting. You actually managed to change my mind on some (not all) of these points