I understand why the rules are so strictly enforced on the TTT servers, and it is one of the reasons why I believe they are some of the best servers that run TTT. Unfortunately, it seems they are so strictly enforced that at times it can ruin the experience for regular players. Admins too often ban strictly based off of the logs instead of waiting to hear what actually happened in the given situation. Many situations are obvious in logs and as a result it is unnecessary to dispute, however I have been slayed for some STUPID reasons, many that we would all agree did not warrant a slay. The logs dont lie.... Bullshit. Logs lack the ability to account for so many situations. One time a detective was sitting in the corner of a room (did not realize it was a detective, had no way of knowing) RDM'ing everyone who ran in. I was a detective as well and jumped the corner and headshooted him with my deagle before I could not even tell who or what it was until they were already dead. Turned out to be a detective. Slayed by Fluffy next round. DA FUQ??? The rules should be strictly enforced for people who are new / not regulars. I have played on the servers for a while, have demonstrated competency of the rules, and never break them save for a few exceptions. Yet I have been banned for RDM & leave twice because I called it a night and a report was filed rounds ago that I was unaware was being exercised. Just wish admins would occasionally exercise some humanity instead of robots following some predetermined algorithm. Honestly I never file complaints unless its a BLATANT rdm (someone running around shooting people). many situations are situational rdm, wrong place wrong time, or freaking out because there is a fuck ton of people shooting at once. The complaint system has evolved from a way to catch people breaking the rules, to whining little bitches using it to rage because they are angry that someone killed them and are looking for a reason to get them slayed. The rules have their place in creating a fun and exciting atmosphere for TTT, however so does the admin who understands that he cannot know and see all.
If the logs showed the detective rdming everyone who came into the room, you could show them here and prove that you're telling the truth.
Not favoritism, simply caution. If you are seen regularly playing on the servers over a span of months, why would one suddenly go AWOL and start massive rdm'ing? The situation is not likely. If anything these players understand the rules better because of their experience, and as a result a slay towards them should be looked at much closer. And Envy it happened a while ago, I am not trying to appeal a slay, I am simply giving you a situation that has happened in the past to prove a point.
It actually happens all of the time. People don't like decisions that are made, their friends get banned and then they want to get banned, they don't want to ever come back and the only way they see to get out is being banned. It's a lot more common than you might think.
My point is that time on the servers yields a greater understanding of the rules, which is something that should be respected.
Imagine this: A new player joins our community looking to have some fun, they RDM, and they are slain. They don't have a problem with it, because they understand they are new and have things to learn. A regular then RDM's in the exact same way the new player did, the new player notices several rounds later that the regular was not slain. He begins to notice a pattern in this, and then leaves the server because it's not fair to everyone. I can say with confidence that this is not how our servers will ever operate.
I am not saying you bend the rules for experienced players, all I am suggesting is that you more closely investigate the cases of RDM against them. If someone RDM's they should be slain irregardless of whether or not they are a regular or new player. I am referring to the cases where the logs show RDM, and there is a backstory which justifies the action (in my personal experience, this is the case with many of my slays).
Staff members aren't supposed to issue slays immediately upon seeing the logs. They wait for the input of both parties involved if a report is made. If its unreported RDM, they are supposed to ask the parties involved what happened, and get their side of the story. This is how I was trained as a moderator, and how all the others are trained. And from my experience staffing and playing as a simple player, I haven't seen many cases where this idea hasnt been followed. Also, as Noctorious said, the idea that we should be more relaxed when it comes to veteran players is sone thing I can't support. Part of what makes SGM so great is that everyone is treated equally, regardless of playtime, rank, age, etc. By that idea, it wouldn't make sense to go easy on regulars as far as the rules go. If a regular RDMs, they should have to be slain just like newcomers would. As Rogers said above, new players would see regulars avoiding punishment as confusing, a double-standard, unfair, etc. Besides, if you're a regular on the servers, you should be pretty familiar with the rules and how not to break them. If you're in a situation where you have broken the rules, you should know that it warrants punishment and take it gracefully. And honestly, if you know/follow the rules, you shouldn't run into many situations where you're being slain. If you are, you might want to brush up on the rules, talk to the staff, and/or change your play style.
I'm not quite sure what you are saying in reference to investigating reports more thoroughly. All the reports we receive are investigated with the same amount of effort, (unless the reply's are repeated spam messages across multiple reports, or cases like that) and we determine the verdicts based off of many factors. So if you could elaborate on that, it would be great.
I was a regular. I would say I knew the rules better than most people. Regulars that know the rules will get away with more. Why? Because we know what is RDM and what isn't. Even if that detective was RDMing players, you can't take justice into your own hands unail he does damage to you. It sounds like you're a "regular" that doesn't understand the rules and why we have them as much as they should. Sounds to me like the source of the issue is your interpretation of the rules and not the rules to begin with.
Alright I have made it my goal to answer your questions and convince you that the rules are in place for a reason. Please read it all, don't just skim it. Let's go. First off, that IS why we are one of the most successful and largest communities around. We hold strict standards for our players and staff. You understand why the rules are so strict, but then think they are too strictly enforced? You cannot have both. Instead of contrasting something you compared them. Make up your mind if you think they are too strict or not, if you personally think they are, then say so. If not, don't say you understand. If you understood you wouldn't be making this post. Staff in general do punish others off the logs, you are correct. The fallacies of eye witnesses and such, as I discuss a little bit in my post here is too great to understand. However, I will discuss this more next quote. Anyways, moderators are REQUIRED to get a response from a player, if the player doesn't respond in a subjective time then the staff are also REQUIRED to punish the player. (I used to wait until I forced it upon them and they cancelled it out twice, but it varies) I'm sorry that you feel like @FluffyShadowfire wasn't listening to your side of the story. That sucks, I've been there. However, I will also attend to that matter in a little. Yes, you are correct that some situations are obvious in logs, however staff are still required to give the player a chance to provide their story for MOST instances (Some staff may disagree with me on this statement, however if a traitor kills 5 traitor buddies straight up, I'd argue you wouldn't have to wait for his response, but nevertheless, that's a different argument) If you feel like you were falsely slain, simply report the staff who slayed you. If they didn't follow protocol and you were following the rules, they will be punished! Keep in mind to have grace upon the staff team as they are humans and make mistakes, like everyone does. This is the part I wanted to address the most to be honest. I have had the logs lie on me, it happens. However, we are still required to follow them. The percentage of times they are wrong are under 5%, which is an acceptable margin. Also, even those times they are wrong, staff can still tell what happened from experience/recording/them directly seeing it. This is the second part I was excited to address. How is this acceptable? Where in the rules does it say that you can kill detective buddies? Nowhere! Now I'm not going off on you, take what I say with wisdom. If you kill a detective, who is immune to traitors acts, because you saw him "RDMing people" and you failed to notice he was your detective buddy, where is the fault on Fluffy? Perhaps the detective was actually killing kosed people you didn't hear were kosed, or maybe he witnessed them doing traitorous acts? Are you him? No, more than likely not. I think you need to realize that you were simply mistaken instead of blaming someone else. I've had similar situations happen to me, it was a simple mistake, but you feel like it was not justified to be punished for it. It's human nature, but that does not mean it is right. No, the rules should never show bias towards any groups. For example, I had been slain 23 times before I got moderator. You want to know how many times I had slain myself because of mistakes I made? Double that. I ended up with around 70 something slays I believe. (Someone can check I have now if they want, feel free to let me know) My point is that even though people play a lot, that does not mean they know the rules, so staff who play a lot and know the rules still mess up. Just because you are knowledgeable does NOT make you infallible. If you were banned for RDM and Leave, it is not necessarily your fault if you felt like it was justified. Make an appeal, if they come with evidence that it was straight up RDM and you left, then they don't have to accept your appeal, however some staff may have grace, who knows. Try and you may fail, but at least you can say you tried. *TIP: Ask if you are alright to leave before you go and if they say you are, then you're free to go, easy and simple way to avoid RDM and leave bans* People complain, like you are in this, because they feel like they were unjustifiably killed. If people are breaking the rules, they will be punished by the report the "whining" people made, if no rules were broken, then nothing will happen. You should never blame someone for reporting you or reporting anyone unless they do it out of pure ignorance. Stop being so harsh on people. Invalid report? No harm, no foul. You're right, staff should always have this mentality. They are not omniscient. Like I said, if you feel like they are not following protocol, report them. As Rogers has said already, people go AWOL all the time. I'm not gonna lie, when I got demoted the thought crossed my mind. However, punishment for such people are usually extremely severe. @Spectral RIP. And also, like Noctorious and others have said, we show NO bias here. If you mess up, you mess up. Doesn't matter who you are. Everyone is simply a character in a Source game, no one is special.
Part 2: It is respected when people know the rules. Their reward? One of two things. They don't break them. They follow the rules to the letter and don't get slain because of that fact. They loophole through the rules and get banned for extensive periods of time. It is really a matter of taking the high or narrow road. Whichever they choose has consequences, good and bad. If someone RDMs they should be slain irregardless of whether or not they are a regular or new player. I am referring to the cases where the logs show RDM, and there is a backstory which justifies the action (in my personal experience, this is the case with many of my slays). This is interesting, kinda contradicting yourself again. Like I said before, if you feel like your slay was unnecessary, simply report it brah. You should NEVER have to take a false slay, if you do then tell the moderators admin or the admin's lead admin. Do this via "Report Staff/Player" on the main forum page. All in all I think you just made some mistakes and made this because you felt constantly unfairly slain. Don't think that you are perfect, don't think that staff are perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. You are not who you are because of those mistakes, rather how you learn from them. I actually spent a lot of time on this post and I have so much homework to do. I wish you the best, take to heart everything I said, please. Sorry for the weird editing, I was quoting you sentence-by-sentence or paragraph-by-paragraph, but it was glitching so I took out the quotes and such. Just read it side by side all your posts. Cheers man
For my part in this I would like to ask you to produce evidence and show me what I did wrong so I may better moderate this server. That said you shot a detective and there are many indications as to a player's status as a detective that are instantly visually recognizable the second you see the player model. That said killing a detective that didn't damage you falls under the category of RDM, even if he has been shooting other players. I appreciate your frustration with the situation @dgaf but I do not have the discretion to void a valid slay by myself. Again I'm sorry this has been so upsetting for you, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
