Invalid Report against Puddles

Name of Staff/Player:

Puddles​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

​

Your Steam ID:

​

Which Server:

East 1​

Which Map:

Terror Train​

Which Round:

3 or 4​

Time of Occurence:

around 1pm​

Reason For Report:

I was playing as a innocent when all this happened. I picked up a discobomb and was walking around with it. when a detective(player✪ Rhysser) was looking at me I dropped it right in front of him. he kosed me and started shooting at me. I defended myself and killed him. the mod Puddles slayed me twice. one for killing the rdming detective and another for what puddles called "loophole trolling with discobombs"

I tried to explain to him that dropping a grenade isn't loopholling but he wouldn't listen. I've been on these servers for 821 hours and have never seen someone slain for dropping grenades. I've been told by mods and admins that when a player throws a grenade you need to wait because they might have dropped it, or it could be a smoke. the player ✪ Rhysser just started shooting at me the second he saw it come from my player

this mod puddles needs a refresher on what loophole trolling is. because I can drop grenades all I want​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

​

 

@puddles @Muffin

 

Greetings "The Black Guy".

I slayed you twice for the reasons you stated in your report, which you got from our chat in-game. I will post our in-game conversation below my response.

You had reported people twice for killing you after you dropped a discombob. Normally, that is fine and the individual that shot you would be slain as was the result of this report;

Spoiler: stuff and things

Nugget was slain for killing you for dropping a discombob. No problem there. Where the issue comes up is a couple rounds later, when a detective reported you as seen here;

Spoiler: things and stuff

This is what piqued my interest. The map train is notorious for people throwing discombobs and getting innocent and traitor buddies killed. 1 discombob on that map has the potential to do a lot of damage. After playing 821 hours on our servers, I'm sure you are aware of that. What I found interesting is that you would go up to players(as an innocent) and drop a discombob; a potentially very lethal object on the Train map.

I thought about this for a round or two and talked to the admin @BmTron about the situation. We both concluded that you were dropping the discombobs in front of people as a map-specific way to t-bait. You were baiting other innocents to kill you because you were dropping a dangerous object right in front of their face. While the animations for dropping and throwing are different, we both felt that there was no reason for you to be acting in such a way other than to loophole. Instead of dropping the discombob off the map, you chose to drop it in front of specific individuals hoping that they would kill you and they did.

It is unfortunate that you feel I acted out of line, but I feel I was very justified. My admin @Muffin will take a look at this report and decide on its verdict.

Thanks,
puddles

Spoiler: chat

 

I do feel like you acted out of line. It even says in the extended rules NOTE: It is suggested that you wait until the grenade has exploded before you KOS so you do not get baited by people dropping it, as you will be punished for RDM. I'd like you to really pay attention to the part where is says "so you do not get baited by people dropping it"

hmmmm what could baited mean?

the way you're trying to lay this all out is all I do is drop grenades infront of people hoping they shoot me.

It's not loopholing, its playing the game. I've seen plenty of mods dropping grenades infront of people.
It almost seems like its a double standard for other players

 

Can confirm I was the one to speak to her and give discretion to slay twice.

Spoiler: those dms

By the way, why were you dropping then picking up nades in the first place? Majority of them on Terror Train are discombobs, what exactly are you trying to get out of dropping them in front of people besides baiting them into killing you? Your intentions behind this is what got you punished, not just the action in general.

 

I don't see how that is loophole trolling. Are you saying its only loophole trolling because it was on terror train? Why was I punished because other players don't know the rules?

I already said it earlier, I drop them because I feel like it. sometimes it is to get a response from someone. It's the same thing people do when they shoot at players to t bait. if a round is going slow.

But it doesn't make sense that you keep bring up the fact that it was on terror train. was I double slain because I dropped a grenade on terror train?

Only T's should throw grenades on terror train? how about the next time I'm on terror train all I do is throw smoke grenades as a inno? will I be slain because most of the grenades on terror train are discobombs and the person thought I threw one instead of a smoke

 

Lukus could you please answer bm's question?

Why were you dropping them constantly in front of others?

 

Oh I didn't know you were the staff member handling this report Rek, should I talk to you instead?

 

I'm not, I'm just trying to explain to you something you aren't getting.

Refusal to answer the questions provided to you will make a quick denial as you are being unresponsive.

 

I already responded to it, and im getting everything. They think I was loophole grief trolling, even though I never did anything outside of the rules. in fact there is a note that protects people dropping grenades in the extended rules. I did something a mod didn't like so she asked a mods that didn't like what I was doing. that's why im still waiting on a response from a lead admin. this report isn't over until I get that. because I've seen admins and mods do this so called "loophole trolling." they've spammed doors, blocked paths, dropped nades, shot directly in the air or at the ground, etc. why do they do this? because they can, nothing about what I did or just listed is loophole trolling.

You cant kill someone for blocking a path or door spamming unless you're in danger.
You need to wait for a grenade to explode before killing the person that threw it
shooting directly in the air or at the ground isnt T baiting

what im getting from puddles and bmtron is they consider those acts loopholing
even though they aren't traitorous acts

Those acts are used to get different responses from players. a player that actually knew the rules wouldn't kill someone doing those things. so why should I be slain and on top of that get double punishment because another player doesn't know how the serious TTT servers work.

Did I know that ✪ Rhysser was going to try and kill me for dropping a nade, No.
What I do know is I didn't do anything traitorous. I could buy and drop 100 grenades just for the fun of it. I could throw 100 smoke grenades and I should be fine if players understand what the rules are. so instead of slaying me, how about the mods do their jobs and inform these players I did nothing wrong when they report me.

 

Because another thing we work on here is intent. See, what you were doing had no actual purpose other than to get people to kill you so they would be slain. Else, you wouldn't have repeated the act over multiple instances and rounds. You were fully aware that they could not kill you for a dropped grenade and abused that knowledge in order to cause confusion, spoil their enjoyment of the game, and cause a headache for the staff. What possible advantage did this repeated action confer onto you within the context of the game? None.

Since you'd like a Lead to weigh in on this, I will go ahead and tag them. @Slicck @Darktooth @Disruptionz

 

I think this is why they say to only post into a report thread if you are directly involved with it. You're are going to get 10 people in here to try and sway a admins or lead admins choice. I'd appreciate if you don't post in this thread lemoncakes. you're biased against me. Not even a month ago you threated me with a ban for something I didn't do without getting my side of the story. Please refrain from Posting in here unless actually involved with Puddles mod chain

 

I'll take it from here, along with my co-lead @Disruptionz.

Hey lukus, thanks for filing this report.

I know that you may seem targeted and singled out, but this situation is a very tricky one and a verdict is usually very hard to obtain. I will admit that the actions that you displayed in-game look a bit like loophole trolling, since you knew what would happen to you once you dropped the grenade, and were "surprised" when something was done about you. When you dropped the grenade, did you not have the prior knowledge that a) it is very easy for someone to think you pulled the pin, and will kill you, and b) something could happen that can lead to someone being slain? I am fully aware that you didn't actually do anything wrong, but judging by your intent, I think you were toying with the players a bit.

I would call this straight trolling, and a bit of loophole trolling. @BmTron was fairly correct in handling this, however I might have been a bit more hesitant in adding an additional slay to the player for things like this. If you were to do this again, I would then vouch for extra slays. The staff in question, while correct, may have pulled the trigger JUST a bit too early, however neither of them are incorrect.

Please await @Disruptionz's response shortly after mine, and we will allow @Muffin, @puddles' administrator, to close this up. You will have one (1) post directly after @Disruptionz's to add any additional information, and then this report will be locked for evaluation.

Thank you for trying to help the staff team grow and improve.

DT

 

While this isn't technically "Loophole" Trolling, its still Trolling nonetheless.

There is a distinct difference between this situation and T-Baiting in the form of shooting at or toward someone; in this case they cannot kill you but in the traditional sense they can.

Personally, I feel that your continuous action of doing this in an effort to get players to kill you so they get slain is counter intuitive to the main objective of the game, and you only did this to muse yourself at others' confusion and frustration.

Its kind of like saying in chat to everyone "Hey guys, I'm a Terrorist" instead of "Traitor" so that when they kill you, you can use the excuse that you said terrorist and that is not the proper term for a KOS. Much like your situation, its counter intuitive, causes confusion, and is pointless.

 

Obviously I don't agree with the judgments, I thank you for the response. Like most people I Play how the community plays, and I feel this double slay was ridiculous. I'll be sure to use this thread as a reference when I witness and mods and admins doing what
I did.

I just find it funny there is a rule page for serious ttt, but mods and admins say screw the rules when they don't like what I player is doing. I like to play the way I play, I think as long as I play within the rules I shouldn't be told how to play.

thank you for your time.

#sirlemoncakeshasnoswag
#puddlesdoesntkeepittrill

 

Thank you for your time.

Thread locked.

 

Although I personally would not have slain an extra round for this, I can understand the logic BmTron and Puddles had here, and in no way do I feel it is out of line. It seems to me that you were being extremely toxic, intentionally getting players slain for whatever reason. I would advise you that behavior like this is frowned upon, and an Admin+ might eventually feel like this behavior is worthy of a ban for said Toxic Behavior.

With that being said, this report has been found invalid. To prevent staff from interfering with the way you play, I would suggest finding a play style that doesn't ruin the game for other people.

Have a good one, and thanks for reporting.