Rejected A New Way to Help

You seem to be under the illusion that the rank will take things away/inhibits the jobs of moderators, or that the rank would take merit away from moderators. It's simply a role given to players who can help out and answer questions (given that they have some tools that aren't normally available to players to aid them in doing so). It's not news that staff aren't always immediately available to answer every question, and it's a fact of human nature that people will want their questions answered quickly and those people will get impatient when they need immediate answers (ie. in the middle of an argument about some rule). With a few of "Mentor"-type people on the forums, they can answer at least a few of the questions that often go unanswered, or are answered very late to the point where they are no longer relevant or it no longer matters. It's simply a title that says "Hey, this guy knows what he's talking about, you can trust what he tells you".

Of course it's not absolutely necessary, a lot of things aren't. We don't need many things we have. We don't need a specialized, customized pointshop. We don't need a bunch of custom M9K weapons on the server. We don't need the advisor rank given to ex-lead admins either. But are they nice to have and do they benefit the community by making things more attractive and less difficult? Definitely.

As you can see by this response:

There are clearly players with questions going unanswered, and saying that moderators are answering all questions in a timely manner is proven false by his statement above. It's not staff's fault, they can't be everywhere at once and they've got lives outside of the game, but would it not be better for the community to have figures that may be able to answer at least a few of those questions?

As for the argument that it creates more work, I fail to see how this is in any way super difficult to accomplish. Pick individuals that have clear, extended knowledge of the rules (former staff, etc.) and want to help out, and then leave them to help out. There would be no hours requirement as they're there to simply help people out and answer questions, so there's no high maintenance/monitoring required. It's a very little amount of work required for something that could potentially convince many members to stick with the community. People appreciate help. Although it'll obviously take a little bit of work to accomplish it, as is the case with anything in life, in the end I feel that the end result will outweigh any negatives involved in the implementation.

People will naturally trust those with some sort of title over someone with no special title highlighting that they can be trusted in some way, which is why this rank is being suggested in the first place. It may not apply specifically to you, but if you're in a large amusement park that you've never been to before and need directions, whose advice would you trust more, someone who has been designated as a helper at the park, or another random tourist that you run into?

 

I am not under any illusion, and I still stand by my statement. It is unnecessary, and will only create issues. We have moderators that well regulate the forums, especially since MangoTango requested this to be only on the forums. So for that matter, it's not necessary. And, as stated before if the suggestion were to be a forum moderator position, it is not needed currently as we have the forums well regulated as of now.



I would also like to state that I appreciate @MangoTango for what he does for the community, and no doubt in my mind if this were to be implemented he would be granted this title. But, I have to disagree with this being put into effect as it's unnecessary and could create problems. And, I would hope other regulars of the community help out our members not on the basis of getting a title, but in creating a better small community around us.

 

Sounds like a great idea. Plenty of ex staff know what they're talking about but tend to be ignored because they don't have a fancy color saying they know. How does this sound for what the rank would be like?

Forum powers:
Colored name
Can post in Q&A without approval
Can comment on reports/appeals
Access to applications (To give feedback and advice to potential candidates)
Access to staff discussion (Some staff tend to ask questions in there that some seasoned ex staff could answer)

In-game powers:
Colored name
All the powers of a trial mod
Access to the following commands,
copyid (really should be a command accessible to all), spectate, profile, showfriends, adminstats(?)

 

I would only like to see this rank given to ex-admins who left on good terms.

Such as Mango, Seventh and The Law to name a few.

 

+1 as long as mango doesn't get the rank

 

Yeah.

 

tl;dr Forum Admins +1

 

Forum Ninjas xD
+1

 

Either that or long standing ex-moderators who left on very good terms and helped contribute to the forums should be given a shot. Of course, with pending approval from the higher ups.

 

I am glad that there has already been a debate between @Blake and mostly @MangoTango
Having a clear difference of view and argumenting it decently gives everybody a better understanding towards both sides of the concept.

That being said, whenever a change occurs I think everybody should be critical about it, as it could influence the future.
As it stands now I have a few points to critisise. Do note I will be fairly harsh, not as a personal attack, but as an objective observer. And these are my personal opinions and beliefs.

• The main idea

I agree it could be usefull to have trustworthy people who have a Staff history in STTT and left on good terms, to simply help out. And to get the 'respect' they deserve (I am going to blatantly call it out as I read it).

Spoiler: respect they deserve quote

However, I do think that this should only go so far. If it is merely for the pure purpose of helping out and being listened to, I do not see any reason of adding extra rights/permissions.
I do think the only people who should have any extra rights should be the staff.

• How I would see the details

Spoiler

In terms of selecting these Mentors or Helpers, I would simply suggest admin or higher would select.
(Maybe with the imput from other mentors/helpers/staff in a seperate topic or just via steam if you happen to see someone you think would do a good job, and fit the before mentioned criteria.)

I would also like to mention that to me the word 'Mentor' would be either someone who trains a trial-mod, or has the job of an advisor.
So I would agree with @Banana Bread and call the rank Helper
(I can't find the correct color)

• In short

For the most immidiate answers in the shoutbox, or trying to make sure all servers are equally staffed I agree we could use all the help we could get.
I also am of the opinion that if the people who fit the criteria I have written above (trustworthy, ex staff, leaving on good terms) deserve a special rank, which would enable them to help with above things. (and the before mentioned respect)
However, as these people can most likely get staff if they would want to, I don't think they should be given any additional rights. If they want those, they can simply reapply for mod.
I feel like we should keep the most things to those who are current staff, as they also put in all the hours and effort. *


*I am assuming that there is a reason these people are not staff any longer.
As staff we put in all the hours, and take in all of the abuse. We are bound to more professionalism and have to always be aware of how we represent ourselves. As ex-staff this isn't as binding.


Edit: This was my last edit; I have now added all the things I could think of. If you've read it before this part, I have incorporated multiple details in the last minutes from different posts.

 

So like a forum moderator of sorts?

 

+1

 

Well, I have read quite a bit about what powers/privileges this title may or may not entitle the person to, but who would they be applying to for said title? The admins? The lead admins? And how would they be regulated? Would this mean another staff tree would be added? The idea, personally, could be quite helpful, but how would we regulate said position?
If done badly, this could just become a headache that would be seen as not worth it, and thus get phased out...

I propose that the selection process work like this:

You can apply for Mentor in the application section <-- For obvious reasons
You must answer various questions about the rules of the server, forums, etc. <-- To test your wit
You also must type out a well thought out piece telling the staff why you feel you are Mentor material <-- So we may see more of the "real you"
Anyone can comment on your app, giving input to whether or not you are helpful and a quality member of this community <-- This is to allow staff to see what others think of this person, not just from the staff's point of view
|__Non-staff can only have ONE post, while staff aren't limited <-- For obvious reasons *cough cough* anti-spam *cough cough*
The final selection is a poll at the top, with the two selections being +1 and -1, and it is staff only <-- To prevent non-staff from abusing various ways of getting/giving +1's such as multiple accounts
|__To become a Mentor you must receive at least a +1 from at least 50% (rounded up) of the staff <-- Final judgement
|__As to allow for the streamlining of this process, if the Lead Admins agree upon a decision about a person they may auto-approve/disapprove a person <-- Lead Admin Veto Power

The regulation would work like this:

Mentor's would talk to various players about varieties of things <-- Obvious statement is obvious
|__If a player feels that a Mentor was not suited to be a mentor or is doing a great job, the could comment on said Mentor's page in the Mentor Feedback Section (Under General Discussion) <-- To allow an easy way to give feedback that is nicely organised
|__If this player receives only positive feedback, then coolio! That means they're doing a great job! <-- The reward for good performance is happiness and knowing you're helping others!
|__If this player receives a lot of positive feedback and a little negative feedback, then a staff member should just have a quick chat with them and have them go back over the rules again <-- As to allow for rage-feedback and general knowledge recap
|__If this player receives some negative feedback and some positive feedback, then the staff should discuss with this person what they are doing wrong and that they need to fix it (and how of course) <-- To allow for Mentor "redemption" (everyone makes mistakes, but you gotta fix 'em!)
|__If this player recieves a lot of negative feedback and little-no positive feedback, then they are demoted and given time to get a firm grasp upon the rules, and may re-apply in a few months time <-- Punishment for your poor performance
The demotion would be decided by the Admins (regular to Lead and Owner of course) and the talks would be done by any staff level (moderator to owner)


I know this may not be the perfect solution, thus I would love to hear everyone's feedback!

 

This is a position that would not have the same abundance as the moderators. It would be reserved for select individuals who would most likely be a couple retired mods and a few retired admins.

The selection process for this position would be the same as the advisor position. Members granted this title pile be a simple case by case basis. You would not apply, but be nominated in a section used for suggesting mentors. After a person shows potential, with enough backing from staff, they will then be asked a few questions. If they answer appropriately, then they would become a Mentor.

This is a position that would have very limited power. Possibly be able to view Staff Discussion initially, then, if the position grows, they can get their own discussion containing a limited number of threads.

This position would have an in-game title with the only possible powers being viewing damage logs, using the global chat, only for the MOTD message, and possibly viewing admin chat. This new position can use these powers in game to mentor new players and possibly new mods.

As far as the forums go, being able to view SD, player IP's and post edits, and a forum rank would all that would all that would be needed for this position. The only iffy thing that could be added would be the allowance for application viewing. However, I want these members to have close to the same powers as the advisors. However, they would need to be more active in order to maintain the title; most likely requiring a daily log in monitored by the fellow Mentors. If someone could not maintain this, they would first be spoken with about their presence, then an admin+ would be notified if removing the title was necessary.

For those of you that say this position sounds more like a helper, I have to say that a moderator's duties make them sound more like an administrator and an advisor's duties sound more like a mod without a time requirement. Trust me, as a mentor to young airmen and kids, it's an appropriate title.

Also, people fitted for this position should have a mindset for helping. They will be expected to exercise the same etiquette standards as all the staff. These individuals will be selected with a sense of trust to exercise autonomously, similar to our advisors.

 

Highwon said sometime ago that he doesn't plan to add any more ranks.

 

I'd like to reiterate what i'm against, as others have taken why I'm against this out of context.

As stated here by Mango, I don't think it's necessary to have a head mentor as this suggestion should only be granted by administrators

Again, I don't want this position to be created that some of our players fear of staff members, we should make it clear that it's completely okay to approach any staff member. It's what we do.

We shouldn't feel less obliged to have a presence over the forums.

Very untrue, but it wouldn't be good for new moderators to be under the impression that helpers are the main presence of our forums. As long as we hugely state to our moderators to remain active on the forums.

True, and I agree, but you are under the impression that I think helpers would replace moderators on the forums I think. So let me reiterate that it would be nice to have a helper as long as we have a concrete system of what exactly a "helper" is.

After my responses in the thread you will see that I was never against for that reason. So I will correct you, because the reason I was against this are the reasons stated above on why I thought it was unnecessary and could create issues.

This I agree with, and if MangoTango were to approach with this suggestion I would agree, which is why I have changed my vote to "Maybe, with changes(list in thread)"

And if that is met, then a +1 from me.

 

I like this its like lead admins retiring to advisor but this is for retired mods and admins finally equality in the staff team but you left 1 rank out I'm a for fool by saying this T-mods what
this rank should only be given to T-mods who did well but just not enough to make it to the staff team +1

 

@Blake just like current mods give suggestions for applications, the original mentor, whom I feel should be reserved for former admins or mods with the kind of attitude as former admins, would give input to the higher ups as to who the next mentor would be.

Take a look at my more recent post regarding this position.