Political Throwdown (part 3)

I am conservative but I do not support Trump, I disagree with a lot of what he says.

1. His response wasn't off bad, after all SARS v1 ( a strain related to covid ) wasn't that bad and had happened only 15 years prior. His response was good enough. Never mind that if you get covid you're most likely gonna recover from it.

2. Ok, that's just a mockery that the left has made up and lied about. Everytime someone brings that stuff up I just stop talking. Democrats really love taking things out of context to get support

3. I don't support him, but I might as well at this point since all leftists say I am for "leaning right".

 

I'm a Libertarian not a conservative Republican

1. Could have been better but his opponents at the time when he halted all travel from China he was deemed xenophobic.
2. this is a loaded question so I'm not answering.
3. I usually vote for a Libertarian candidate but this time around I'm voting Trump cause taxes are lower for my business, doesn't fuck with my guns, and isn't part of the "woke"/PC crowd which I've grown to dislike.

 

Honestly if the Woke and PC people weren't so insufferable I would have voted 3rd party again

 

I'm probably more Libertarian than Republican but we all know it's either Biden or Trump and I'd rather have Trump than some dementia riddled, racist pedo.

1) I think it's better to look at the response of others to Trumps response
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...-chinatown-amid-coronavirus-concerns/2241075/ Telling people to go to China Town, no masks, no social distancing, early stages of Covid. "Precautions have been taken"

Wanting to keep borders open to certain places that were "Low risk" (Isn't trump being blamed for not shutting down USA quick enough??)
https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-ad-china-trump-coronavirus-racist-xenophobic-2020-4 Weird how Biden flip flops from trump being "Xenophobic" to being Xenophobic himself.

https://www.hpnonline.com/infection...f-us-population-cause-22-million-deaths-in-us And finally this, check the dates they were posted, check how many deaths today.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/key...cts-over-410000-total-us-deaths-by-jan-1.html

Honestly, the biggest problem with Trumps handling of Corona is that he wasn't more strict and didn't become a dictator to make sure all states did the same thing to lessen it, instead Democratic cities like New Jersey and New York came up with fucked up ideas to put infected patients into old folks home causing them to be the top 2 states with the most deaths with the lowest cases.


2) What science has he rejected? Global warming? Climate Change? COVID? Which are we talking about here?
Let's bring up the fires on the West coast, not climate change, most of these could be prevented by better forest management, controlled burns (Which are banned in those states) are a very easy way to lower the amount of uncontrollable forest fires and it's also good for the forest (If you didn't know, Forest fires are natural, but with humans, we live in these areas and our homes are at risk, which means we also need to be the ones to clear it so the forest fires do not go out of control)

Sure you can argue that forests are natural so why do we need to clear them? Because we moved into areas where if it all burned before us, it wouldn't matter, now if it burns, we have our homes there, so we also need to manage the land around where we live.

Are we talking about Trump getting out of the https://unfccc.int/process-and-meetings/the-paris-agreement/the-paris-agreement ? The garbage agreement that promotes countries staying as "Third world countries" by heavy fucking with "First world countries"? Should we not be lending technology to the heaviest polluters to reduce theirs and not attack the countries that are reducing theirs already?
https://waqi.info/

3) I'm sure we can all agree that Trump can be stupid, and says stupid things, but in some cases that's why he's better, he doesn't hold back and try to hide his thoughts, we get to see how stupid he really is unlike other politicians who hide their evil intentions.
So I'll throw it back at you, What has Trump done to make you dislike him?

And since you're new, give us your viewpoints.

1) Why do you think Trump is bad? why?

2) Do you think Biden is good? why?

3) Do you support antifa/BLM? why?

4) What are some Biden policies you stand by?

5) How did you think Trump handled COVID? Do you think he should have been more dictatorish and control what states did, himself?

6) What do you think about the riots?

7) Fund or Defund police?

8) How do you feel about how big tech is handling the Biden emails, or anything anti Biden, compared to anything anti Trump?

 

1. Do you not recall near the beginning of quarantine when he was constantly underplaying the seriousness of the virus? I strongly disagree with how effective his response was. If he had responded effectively we would not be seeing the 200k + covid deaths that we have right now.

2. I would not consider myself a democrat and would say I lean more towards a global moderate. Trump multiple times has spread misinformation. Just off the top of my head, he has spread misinformation on anti-vax, covid, renewable energy (specifically windmills of all things), and climate change.

3. If you are curious on whom you more side with I highly recommend this test. https://www.isidewith.com/political-quiz . It's pretty detailed and it at least gives you multiple options to pick from.

 

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/updated-timeline-coronavirus Read this and see where USA stands with other countries for different things like Border Closures, Evacuations, etc etc.

 

Sorry if my second question was more of a loaded question. I do not think Trump has followed general scientific consensus and I believe he has spread misinformation on important topics. I already responded to @Minnesota_Hic on the second question, if you want to see my response to him.

Do you not think Trump underplayed the seriousness of the virus or may have at least contributed in any way in making his base not take it as serious as they should? Also, I keep hearing this point brought up regarding the travel ban on China. Regardless of when he did it or not, once the virus was here, I think Trump contributed to underplaying the seriousness of the virus leading to more American deaths.

 

I don't know how you can under play a virus that has less deaths than most of today's plagues

 

Read my post if you want to keep bringing up who underplayed it lol.

 

I'll answer and respond to the other questions you asked me to answer tomorrow when I have a chance to go through and read the other articles/links you sent me. However, I just wanted to point one thing out regarding this point you made here.

So, correct me if I am wrong, but is the point you are trying to make here that Trump had a decent enough response because instead of 2.2 million deaths we had only 200k and second link states a study showing how we could have 400k deaths come January?

Also in response to the second post you made on who underplayed it or not, sorry when I responded there I had not yet read your post as I hadn't updated the thread yet.

 

Before we can answer the question of whether Trumps response was good enough or not, we need to figure out something, How much power does Trump have to deal with it? Does he control each individual state? Can he force a state to do something specific?

 

Before we get into that, I am just curious what point you were trying to make with those two links?

In regards to his actual ability to control states, I understand he cannot outright tell any state what to do whenever he wants. My biggest issue with him handling covid has been him downplaying the seriousness of it. For example, just criticizing Joe Biden for wearing a mask. It's childish and a bad example of leadership when the president of the country is making fun of his opponent for "wearing the biggest mask" he'd ever seen a few days before getting infected with covid himself and still hosting rallies without requiring those in attendance wear masks.

 

You talking about this when you say he made fun of Biden for wearing a mask? Like I said before, Trump says stupid things, in this case it was pretty funny cause Biden wears a mask more as a "Vote for me cause I wear a mask all the time", it feels like he does it as a gimmick, especially when he pulls stunts like this

I suggest watching that full video, I just linked to the time that completely throws his "I'm protecting people by wearing a mask" out the door (1:30, Didn't seem to go to the spot I wanted it to).

As for rallies and people not wearing masks...

only so much you can do before you force people to wear masks and we all know what happens when you force people to wear a mask.

 

I still would like you to answer the question I asked lol, I am trying to understand what the purpose of linking those two links earlier was trying to convey.

As for what you just said:
1. I get to some people it's funny to make fun of someone for wearing a mask especially if you think the other person is just wearing one to feign that they care about controlling the spread of the virus. I don't really care either way. He is the president, the literal figure head of the country. If you want people to take the virus seriously, making fun of someone for wearing a mask regardless of why helps in downplaying the seriousness of the virus.
2. Yeah, Joe Biden is an idiot. Trump is also an idiot. Trump has been president while handling the coronavirus pandemic. I dislike Joe Biden, but I dislike Trump far more. I can't defend Joe in this clip, he looks dumb. I have also seen Trump being dumb in far far more instances. Difference is Trump has been far far far more dumb as president of the country and Joe Biden hasn't.
3. I don't really get the point you were trying to make here? If he wanted to, he could require attendants at his rallies to wear a mask, limit capacity, and socially distance the attendants. I also don't know what you mean by "and we all know what happens when you force people to wear a mask?"

 

So, I probably will respond to this in more detail tomorrow when I have more time, but can you elaborate more if you can? What "plagues" are you referring to? The season flu or more aggressive pathogens like ebola, tuberculosis, or something else?

 

Reality vs Predictions

 

1) What is the purpose of a mask to you? When should you wear a mask? Also Trumps comment said that at distances you don't need to wear a mask, Biden still wears one, this does not downplay the virus, it promotes Social distancing and how you don't need to wear a mask at distances and if you really want to argue the point more since so many people followed his "Inject lysol" will also follow his "Don't wear a mask at 200feet away from people" and make those people who don't want to wear a mask, social distance, and this is reaching just as far as you are with saying he's downplaying the virus with the same comment lol.

2) Can we get one thing straight, who is responsible for things dealing with Covid? States? Just the president? Mayors? Who has the control currently and who is deciding on how it's dealt with?
And don't forget Biden has been in politics for 47 years, and is currently being investigated for corruption among other things


Can you name a few things that Biden has done with his 47 years?

3)

 

Plagues as in the common cold, flu, modern dangerous plagues

 

Okay, I just wanted to clarify. I'll respond to the other points you made in the original post tomorrow when I have more time. This one point was the one that just stuck out the most to me so I wanted to respond to it now while it's in my mind.

Okay, so you cannot really compare the two studies and draw the conclusion of predictions versus reality. The two studies are looking at two different things. The first study predicting 2.2 million deaths in U.S. was an estimate based on a 2.4 R nought value and I assume whatever mortality rate they were using back in March with an "absence of any control measures or changes in individual behavior." They go so far as in the final paragraph to state the 2.2 million number is "not accounting for the potential negative effects of health systems being overwhelmed on mortality." All the first study really did was take the reproductive number of virus and the mortality rate then apply that to the United States. The real study behind the first link is this: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

The second link showing the study that predicts 410k deaths come January is only sharing what the current coronavirus trends look like expanded into January, assuming no real major changes in the slope. Here is a link to the prediction data: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

I mainly was focusing on this point here because sharing these two links to claim reality versus predictions is a gross misunderstanding of the data presented here. You could make the claim that the actions we took did have an effect given we have less deaths than the 2.2 million prediction, but yeah I would fucking hope so. To say we did better than nothing is not the best argument for how well we did.

I'll respond more to your other response and @Minnesota_Hic 's response tomorrow when I have more time and energy.

 

America is fucked