Completed Report against PixeL

Name of Staff/Player:

PixeL​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

Staff​

Your Steam ID:

not staff​

Which Server:

Vanilla​

Which Map:

#freenilz​

Which Round:

Not sure.​

Time of Occurence:

Multiple​

Reason For Report:

This report is based on this appeal: https://www.seriousgmod.com/threads/nilzs-appeal.51835/#post-545276

Regarding the evidence:
- The only false KOS here would actually be committed by @Heli12345 . Heli may be confused by the KOS rules, however, nilz only placed suspicion on Heli at the start of the round. As a moderator, Heli should be aware that stating someone did traitorous acts is indeed not a KOS. Heli called KOS on nilz, and in turn, Heli then placed a KOS on nilz for something that is not KOSable.

I am curious, did nilz get killed as a result of Heli's false KOS? Did he serve a slay for this since this would count as RDM?

- For the second instance, historically speaking, we placed Toxic Gameplay bans on players that cause a negative outcome for players in the server. In this case, I can see it happening, but as you stated yourself, Nilz never actually called a KOS on the player... Nilz also didn't kill any players himself. Literally the only person that died in this scenario is Nilz. I'm not sure how this is equating to toxic gameplay in the slightest sense.

There's a lot of dots that aren't connecting here. If toxic gameplay is present, then hey, go for it, but the evidence for a toxic gameplay ban wasn't presented in the appeal, and the facts that PixeL laid out (especially in the first video) are not accurate.​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

​

 

Tagging @PixeL and his admin, @Teroxa.

 

I butchered this part quite a bit lol. Whoops. What I meant to say is that nilz placed high suspicion on Heli, something that he was actually incredibly clear about, and in turn, Heli KOS'd nilz for that (you can not KOS someone for calling suspicion)- which Heli should realize as a moderator is not okay. When Heli KOS'd nilz, this then made Nilz's KOS totally permissible and warranted. This is only speculation, but it almost seems as if Heli reported this to administration for toxic gameplay because he is salty that he made a mistake. At least, that is what it looks like from an outside perspective and perhaps administration should be weary about including this as evidence against toxic gameplay as it does look like a staff member has made a pretty critical mistake in this scenario.

 

Everyone okay, or are we just ignoring this one doesn’t exist so everyone can meme it shoutbox for a few more days? :|

What’s been going on with the incredibly long delays with reports lately? People have been constantly complaining about it, including a few that mentioned that Teroxa hasn’t handled DM reports in over a month? Everyone chill?

 

Hey there Neutral,

Sorry for the long wait, i believe they both have some real life things that are happening right now or just didn't get notified with the first tag.
We strive to respond to reports and appeals as fast as we can.
I'll retag them in the hope that they get notified and respond to you @PixeL and @Teroxa.

Greetings,

Ted

 

Hey, I'll be replying later tonight.
I personally have been busy with work and everything in-between.
Sorry for the long delay.

 

Heya, I'm aware of this report, sorry for not informing you about that earlier.
It sometimes takes time for us to handle these reports, but there's always a reason for that.
I focus a lot on talking to the people involved, so rest assured that even if there's no immediate response to the report, things are happening behind the scenes.

~ Teroxa

 

Heyo, alright I can reply.

For your points mentioned above,

True. In this specific video / evidence, nilz throws out that Heli shot someone to place high suspicion on him. Some players may in fact kill for this suspicion though.
Further in the game, there was another piece of evidence of nilz saying someone else shot him.
Again, not kosable or anything but in this case, nilz knew what he was doing.
Heli should not have placed a KOS on nilz in this case, though and he's in the wrong for that.

Secondly,

Also true. He did not kill anyone in this case. Who knows if he would've if he hadn't died, maybe not.
But, flailing around an unid'd body around players, and potentially trying to lead them to deadly objects such as lava or whatever can still count.

But, let's step back here.

I banned nilz because someone/a few people expressed concern with his gameplay.
Especially coming off of a recent harsh ban, he would assume he'd be watched way closer, right?
Not only did he recently come off of a ban, he's also had several previous offenses and issues with gameplay as well as other things.
Once I saw of nilz potentially causing havoc already again, I had a chat with a few members of the administration and while the
evidence provided in the appeal is thin to none, we concluded that from gameplay, previous history, and that evidence, that he has in fact
not changed and needed to be banned again.

But, I'm not taking the blame off of myself for the ban since I of course had a review/ban in the matter but that's just everything that led up to it.

I'll now leave this to @Teroxa to conclude this report.

 

Hey PixeL,

Thanks for the lengthy reply. It seems like the quoted portion is the relevant information- I do have to say I agree here.

I do just have one more question. Is nilz ban going to be altered now that you've reviewed this report, and perhaps, rereviewed the previous evidence?

I do think it's unusual to ban someone based on something they may have done if given more opportunity, without the evidence that they haven't actually done it, and it leads to quite an odd precedent to how these type of bans may be handled in the future. If nilz is actually "causing havoc" on the server, wouldn't it be less embarrassing for administration to actually obtain evidence of him doing so before pulling the trigger finger to ban? If he's causing havoc as you mentioned, wouldn't this be pretty easy to obtain to actually gain a proper case?

Instead of doing this, which as you presented would have been relatively easy, you went ahead and pulled the ban finger... In the past, we would have just told the staff team to keep an eye out for this behavior and actually pull the ban when there's actually evidence of toxic behavior. Banning someone before just doesn't seem right, no?

 

We've been having some discussion about this.
Once Teroxa replies to the report, the decision will have been made and it should be in his report response or I can at least mention it somewhere.
I'll make sure to keep everyone informed.

 

Thanks for reconsidering. I do urge that you suggest the community input and reaction from this type of ban. A lot of views and expression on the evidence that was prevented was already reacted to in shoutbox by a pretty wide breadth of individuals, and it does appear that a thread regarding this topic has been created a lot that summarizes the dangers behind what you included in your most recent reply entails for the health of the staff team and how they interact with the community; https://www.seriousgmod.com/threads/why-the-administrations-approach-is-flawed-and-unhealthy.51848

 

Hey there.
Thanks for your patience and for addressing your concerns in the report.
We appreciate and always encourage the community to speak out if you see something you believe to be wrong or if something needs further clarification.

So let's talk about the topic at hand.
The ban we're talking about was a 4 week ban, issued by Pixel on 04/05/19 for "Toxicity + History" based on a request by one of our moderators.
While I still believe there to be some validity in this ban (to a certain degree at least), I do agree that the approach taken was flawed.

First of all, let me go over the evidence and clear up why I believe that the evidence presented does indeed show signs of toxicity.
The 2 pieces of evidence presented in the appeal are the following 2 videos:

Spoiler: Evidence

Video #1:


Video #2:

I mainly want to focus on Video #1 here.
The issue I have with it is the fact that Nilz lied and accused Heli of killing a person, even though he clearly did nothing at all.
I don't see any reason for him to do this, besides trying to confuse players and to incite a fight.
Even though nothing happened in this particular situation, the fact that he tried to mislead other players into killing someone can be seen as toxic.

Yes, that is absolutely correct.
The KOS called by Heli is not valid. Saying that someone killed a person, without explicitly KOSing them is not traitorous.
Since the KOS was not based on a sufficient reason, this would be RDM provided Nilz was indeed killed for the KOS.
At the time of writing this response, I was not able to gather enough information to determine whether Nilz was later killed for the KOS Heli called.
I will continue my investigation and follow up at a later date, once I have enough information to make a decision.
If it turns out that Nilz was indeed killed for the KOS called, Heli will serve a slay for the RDM and I'll be sure to have a conversation with him about this situation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------​

To sum up, and address your main point: Yes, the approach taken was flawed.
The evidence obtained was simply not enough to support the ban.
We apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused.
I'll mark this report valid. The player has been unbanned and the ban will be voided.