Gun Control

I'm surprised a thread like this hasn't popped up in one way or another, even tho I swear I've made one in the past, but whatever

For those of you who don't know, there was another school shooting in Florida on the 14th. 17 dead, 18 injured so far

To give some context, after 9/11 (September 11th, 2001), TSA and flight security skyrocketed
After Columbine (April 19th, 1999 - over 3 years before 9/11), seemingly nothing has changed. In fact, it seems to have gotten worse

How many terrorist attacks have we had on or above the level of 9/11 since then? 0.
How many school/mass shootings have we had on or above the level of Columbine since then? Countless.
The difference between these two events comes down to one thing: something was done post-9/11, and hardly anything is done post-any mass shooting

This is solely caused by those who believe in the outdated 2nd Amendment. This was instated when we were at war, over 300 years ago, with the British, so the writers of the document wanted to make sure the people had the right at any point to rise up against a tyrannical reign.

Now I'm not arguing that we should remove the 2nd Amendment. I believe people should bear arms (to an extent) if they so chose. Just make it more difficult:
Extensive background checks, even felonies committed as a minor, mental health tests and perhaps psychiatric visits, peer reviews, etc. And that's just for pistols.
The current system is not working. If you want to deny that, feel free, but the hundreds of people dead in Vegas, Florida (Parkland and Orlando), and Virginia Tech would most likely disagree.

I don't know how to buy a gun, but I know enough. I am currently working on getting information from a friend who owns about 15 different guns on what the process is to obtain one, so I'll post that in the comments when I get it.

Other counter-measures:
Metal detectors (in schools and large areas like concerts, conventions, malls, etc. -- these places should be more strict, even if the person does have a permit to conceal)
Only selling bullets for pistols maybe rifles, and selling non-lethal bullets for ARs and SMGs. That way, those who enjoy shooting their ACRs on the field can do so, and they can protect their home with a reasonable weapon

Counter arguments I have heard and will likely be made in this thread:

• If we don't have guns, criminals can get them and we won't be able to fight back if in that situation

This is something pro-gun enthusiasts don't seem to understand. Most democrats don't want to take your guns away, just how easy it is to get them

• Just because terrorists or mentally unstable people can't get guns doesn't mean they can't kill using other methods

This is true, but guns are the easiest and most reliable means of killing people. This is why the military carries guns, and don't have an arsenal consisting of glass bottles and car bombs

• We shouldn't punish people who are good-hearted Semaritans who want a gun to protect themselves

This isn't punishment. This is for the well-being and safety of everyone. Everyone who flies knows what it's like to go through TSA, and they all know why it's like that. This is no different.

• It will cost a lot of money to implement metal detectors in the places you mentioned

Yes, it will. Less than the cost of putting several (mass) shooters through a trial and jail time, and certainly less than a wall spanning the entire length of the US-Mexico border

Other sources proving how far ahead other countries are in their gun control:
Australia 1996
Gun control laws implemented after mass shootings around the world
More stats about gun control around the world

Spoiler: I mean, come on

Anyway, discuss, and take it easy. Don't want to have this thread closed in the first few days, but I will if anyone starts dragging this conversation out of line. Thanks.

 

If you ban guns, other attack methods will be used. Guns aren't the catch all.

 

1. TSA fails audits a staggering amount of the time.
2. It also allows citizens to revolt against their own government if needed.
3. Agree

 

A majority of the county agrees with the background check issue. The problem is the politicians don't understand that.

 

This along with the states combining their databases would help vastly.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html

I wonder why

 

Btw

FBI knew of the boy was suspicious 5 months prior to the shooting

and between the 5 months and the shooting he was posting on instagram guns knife and whatever also allah akbar so like come on FBI

 

Spoiler

As much as it's a few years old, I think this is just.

 

There needs to be some king of database that can be checked for a persons mental health, or past issues, as to whether they can buy a gun or not.

(Becuase I strongly believe guns should be available to any member of public, but it seems a lot of americans disagree. So this is atleast an option.)

 

The fact of the matter is, there are so many guns circulating in America, you can't control them short of imposing extreme martial law and actively seizing weapons from registered owners. Even then, you're going to get a substantially small amount off the streets. So while I agree that gun related violence is idiotic and awful, no amount of strict regulation is going to change that it happens. If you look at legal purchase criminality rates, the people who purchased the weapons tend to have no prior offenses and no noteworthy issues otherwise. So even increasing the difficulty of acquiring them doesn't really help. Also, as it is a state regulated topic, I'll use myself as an example. Ohio has relatively tougher regulations on how difficult it is to acquire a weapon, but I live less than three minutes from the Indiana border, which has extremely lax gun regulations. It would be no problem at all for me to purchase weapons there. So, it has to become a government controlled issue which I definitely don't support, as it infringes on basic American freedoms. These events are tragic and all, but I refuse to let fear and loss of life alter the fundamentals upon which this country was founded. We did enough of that after 9/11.

 

Let's just ignore the tiny orange man we unfortunately call our president, he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

Anyway, Just cause laws on getting guns are more intense, won't exactly solve anything, I would be pressuring schools to hire some kind of armed security. Personally there were 2 armed cops where I went to high school and where I go to college now there are dozens of campus security officers.

There are too many guns already out there, if someone wanted one to shoot some place up with, they would have no problem getting one, even with harsher laws, and if they're going to get one anyway, I see no reason to punish the normal people who want to own legit guns

 

It seems like the last couple sentences are, at best, American nationalism talking and, at worse, complete brainwashed garbo
From what I gather, it doesn't matter how many people have to die to acts of terror for there to be any sort of referendum, because "muh freedoms"
If you want to fight terror, join the army, don't just sit at your desk and point fingers at people who want to make a positive change because people like yourself don't value human lives over your American pride.
I find it highly ignorant for you to say that you refuse to alter outdated amendments due to the loss of lives of which are not your own.

 

Why do your kind have such a problem with patriotism? Lmao

 

Idk what you mean by "your kind", so I'm assuming you're already derailing the thread for the sake of instigating me
Did you even read the OP? Or my response to your comment at least?
The question you asked has nothing to do with the topic so I suggest you give a decent argument

Edit:
If you actually read my reply you would have your answer

 

You may want to go back and read your own comments to see where the instigation is going on here.

Gun control is a controversial topic, and, that is welcome here. However, please debate civilly. Continuing to fail to do so may lead to the thread being shut down and possible warning points issued to the ones derailing and instigating arguments.

 

Guns are nothing more than a means to an end, like any other tool. America doesn't have a gun violence problem, it has a violence problem, like so many other nations full of human beings with violent tendencies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

We just happen to use more guns because they're more readily available here. If there were less, people would find a different way to kill one another.

 

Fyi in 2012 over 190,000 firearms were reported lost or stolen by police. Are you going to remove guns from the police

 

Guns don't kill people, mentally insane people with easy access to guns kill people. Just today in my chemistry class we were talking about how difficult it is to obtain some sort of commercial drone license. Yes, getting a license to fly a drone is much harder than the process to buy a gun.
http://www.scarymommy.com/things-harder-obtain-than-guns/

 

Agreed. But these mentally insane people are perfectly capable of passing checks until they do something insane. Do you see the trouble with your notion? If you have no history of misbehavior or mental illness, these checks won't stop the next shooter from doing what they do.

EDIT: I should mention it's only being brought up how easy it is to obtain guns legally. Nevermind how absurdly simple it is to subvert the system and get one off the streets.