The new N word: The F word!

If a player were not straight and using the word to call themself it, I would still request that they refrain from doing it as It could just lead to others saying it and then when warned asking why 1 person is allowed to say it and others aren't. It's not used in a peaceful manner in most times, and if directed at someone, They most likely aren't calling them the butt of a cigarette. Regardless of who you are, If I see you use the word and I feel you need the warning, I will give it to you. Now if you're using it in a non-harmful manner, maybe I'd be a tad bit more lenient, but In most cases I would punish the player following the Harassment/Racism protocol.

 

If you ban a word which is not a "call to action" you are restricting speech. That is the bottom line. If can't understand that then you shouldn't talk about it.


I'm out my dudes

Have fun @Robokiller87 if anyone can do it it's you.

 

It's dumb that particular words are banned and others are not, and it is a telling oversight in terms of how the rules are applied in SGM. Personally, I believe the word 'nigger' should be used freely, as normalizing the use, and ceasing to stress on everyone the racist implications of the word, will rapidly turn it from a word of racism to just a common, everyday slur. If we have people using nigger so commonly it comes innocently from children, actual racists won't have that word anymore to use against black people. The same can be applied to faggot, like seen in that southpark episode.

However, in practical application, there is no real need use words like that. I don't use slurs outside of absurd contexts, and I don't think many of you are so politically conscious you would use the words for that purpose. A cultural shift like that starts on the streets, not on the gaming forums, there are better words to use, and I think everyone here knows why 'Nazi' is a more acceptable term of mockery than 'Faggot'

 

Don't use this private service if you don't want to play by the rules. That is the bottom line.

 

Free speech allows you to say things like this, sure. But would you go into a GSA club and start throwing around words like that? And when they make you leave, would you sue them because they kicked you out because you hurt their feelings? I realize this example is a tad extreme, but there are certain environments where its just distasteful to say something just because you can.

You're right. But if we don't punish for it, the word already has meaning and still hurts people. We're not going to say "suck it up and move on" to the people who actually take offense to the word. A sharp knife will cut someone, but should stab people until the knife is dull so we don't hurt anyone? A more sensical approach would be to create environments where words like this aren't used.


It's easy enough to say that you shouldn't let words get to you when they aren't being used to directly hurt you.

 

What the fuck kind of storm did i start

 

It's even easier to say that we should just not use those words because they might hurt someone else. In a regulated community like SGM, it's easy to keep that kind of talk blocked and unwelcome, but when it comes to the real world, you don't have that protection.

Silencing those opinions and words, dumb as they are, doesn't work, because then that sort of hatred and bigotry festers and grows into something much larger than it ever has a right to be. You give it legitimacy, because it becomes a force powerful enough to be silenced. You create barriers and standards that force people to be completely on one side or the other, just by association, and make people take stances they wouldn't normally even consider.

The best way to combat hate is to mock it. Nobody is afraid of Nazi's anymore, nobody thinks they are powerful, cool, or good, because they are so thoroughly ridiculed and mocked. Anyone and anything that tried to associate Nazism with something positive was dragged through the mud and de-legitimized. Then, we jump to current times, were someone teaches their pug the Nazi salute, and he gets arrested. That gives Nazi's power, and strength. It gives them status and legitimacy. We hate Nazi's, and until you hide them away, the constant mockery will ensure they never have power again.

Now, apply that to something like the word 'nigger'. Rap songs and black people's own use of the word has almost erased it from the public's vocabulary, made it something almost nobody uses unless they are part of the minority or racist circles. If the general public starts using it in non-racist ways, that word then becomes non-racist. But the more dangerous and taboo we treat the word, the more powerful that word becomes. The more people it can hurt.

TL;DR: Hiding something we don't like just makes it a more powerful weapon for someone else to use

 

@literally any admin or lead or owner

It's a Yes or No

Like you didn't know this would happen

 

Harassment is discretionary and you may be asked to stop using the word, depending on the environment and the context. Keep in mind the screenshot that Agent A posted is from our servers. The way we handle on the forums is modeled around that, however the environment is totally different so it does vary slightly. This makes sense because the servers are not the easiest venue to regulate discussion.

This thread is a perfect example of that- no one has been warned, or asked to stop using the word in this entire discussion. However, as my experience as staff for the past year or so- these same type of discussions on the server start out good, but then degrade very quickly to people screaming the word for the sake of being edgy using the discussion as an excuse. Literally almost every single time. So we rather you just not use the slur at all while on the servers- but in forum discussions like this, no one has been warned, and it'd be inappropriate to do so.

 

You're completely right, but even if its the most effective method, it still hurts people. The end doesn't justify the means.

Taking back slurs and using them as a way to empower their target group is great. But it creates its own set of problems. People can and do see this and think that they are okay with it being used in any context. If a black person uses the N word to protest racism, then some racist white person might think, "well a black person just said the N word so obviously none of them have a problem with me saying it." Then before you know it, people think the N word is just a synonym for a black person and doesn't even realize they're being racist. The same thing goes for all slurs.

I agree with you, but in practice it doesn't work.

 

As previously stated, this is a private community ran by people who invest hundreds of hours in ensuring it goes the way they expect it to. As drama-free as possible and as smoothly as possible. Nobody likes seeing someone not playing nice, and nobody likes the thought of someone being bullied. If they can help people out, they most likely will. And because this is a private community, the words that have been delegated to being banned, is within the rights of the people that run the site- there's not really much to contest here. If you feel the word isn't as heavily impactful or as toxic as it's being made out to be, then that's still just your opinion, and it's being heard.

The goal is to ensure everyone just focuses on having a good time with the content they provide and with the people that said content attracts. You don't have to agree with every change, but you have to have to come to terms with a now very 'main-stream' mindset, and that's that they're trying their best to please everyone. Not everyone is going to be happy, but they're choosing the lesser of multiple evils. Your opinion matters, but in the bigger picture. If they just went off of the vocal minority all the time we'd see yet another popular community become a memory and an after-thought. Here's an excerpt from a reddit post that strongly visualizes how I feel about cases like this when a change is made, "Over the last years, it's become more and more of a trend for devs to listen to the community and implement changes into their games. The community says this feature is useless? Let's remove it. Initially, this system is awesome. Fans are happy, devs show the community that they care and that they are actively working to make the game better. But eventually, it goes down-hill. The problem is that there are too many people that want different things. Where some people think a feature is good, others want it gone. There will always be opposing views, and it's starting to get to the point where devs have become reluctant to listen to the community because they(the community) cannot make up their mind."

End-game is really just recognizing that we're all participating in the community, and that just because something that's added, removed, or changed ends up being a move that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean we're still not heading in the right direction of ensuring we can prolong the life-span of our community, and try to accommodate as many people as possible. We know the word 'faggot' can be offensive, and yes many other words can be offensive too but aren't banned, but this hardly seems like a change that's going to affect most of the people posting right now. It's just a thing now, and if it starts screwing people over, then they'll change it. Trust them.

 

Just because someone will be hurt doesn't mean it can't be an option. I hate to say it, but it's naive to think that way. Unless we are going to wrap everyone in a nice, gentle, personal bubble where nothing can harm them, you are going to have to hurt someone to get anything done, in some way, to make any form of progress.

That is inaccurate in all sorts of ways.
For one thing, if we try to normalize these words, that would mean everyone is using them. Not just the minority they were previously associated with.
For another, we still teach people the origin of the word. History is not something to be undervalued.
For a third: Yes, the point is to have nobody have a problem with anybody saying it. When that point comes, the word will have lost any and all meaning it once had. When you don't realize you are being racist, and nobody else does either, you aren't being racist.

In practice, it works perfectly. It is, in fact, the most historically effective method for countering a hate group, so long as we still teach the hate group's crimes. There is literally no better way to fight someone than to destroy their weapons and delegitimize everything they stand for.

Then there is an entire aspect I haven't even touched upon yet:
By making Nigger a taboo word, you create a difference between black people and white people. A very clear one. This makes a barrier or rift between the two. This creates more racism. The day black people and white people can say "nigger" to each other, and nobody gets offended, is the day that barrier is removed, and we are one step closer to a unified society.


Offense is only ever Taken. It is never Given.
This does not mean it is wrong to be offended, and in may situations it is appropriate and arguably 'correct', but it also means you have to understand you are the one being offended.

 

Your 'freedom of speech' in America implies that our government will not impede you in saying what you want. At no point does it ever mention there being no personal consequences for what you choose to say. No one can technically restrict your speech, but in a private setting you are fully able to be required to not speak a certain way based on how that place chooses to allow or disallow things. Buck up, buddy, that's how this works. It doesn't matter where YOU'RE from, you play in a gaming community full of people from around the world. Your values don't hold any more weight than anyone else, here.

 

As was stated before, it is up to the servers discretion as to what words is or is not allowed, same with the rules. This has always been the case for anything owned privately. However, I'd still like to give my 2 cents. 99% of the time, I can assure you when people use the word 'faggot', they aren't thinking malicious thoughts about gay people. Its more just a swear word you can use to insult people like any other swear word; it just so happens that it doubles as an insult towards gays. When people say 'You mother fucker', they aren't actually thinking of that person being someone that fucks other peoples mothers, its just them throwing around swears. Ultimately, I don't disagree or agree with the decision, since its not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. However, the amount of people being offended that they can't use this single swear is likely to vastly outweigh the amount of people actually offended by the word, and it will probably create more problems than solve. But like I said, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, I'm just being realistic about the outcome.

 

This thread sure took off overnight

I'm fine with any word, call me a dumbass (you'd be right), a faggot, a stupid whore, whatever. I don't really care, if you're not my friend your opinion of me has very little value to me. If you're my friend and talk shit about me for laughs I'll laugh along. If you can't laugh at yourself and take yourself too seriously your life becomes rather bland in my experience.

That said.
My opinion on the matter of faggot or any slur is you should not use them here.
One should not go out of their way to take offense. Just because someone calls you stupid you don't need to go on a moral crusade to get them banned or punished, that's stupid in and of itself and serves no good purpose. It's just letting vindictive jerks get what they want.
Inversely, one should not go out of their way to be offensive. Just because you can use faggot to mean stupid, as Robokiller says, that doesn't mean you need to or should run around calling people faggots. That's rude and it too serves no good purpose other than maybe an idealistic approach to freedom of speech.

Be considerate of others, even if you couldn't give a flying fuck (or even a grounded fuck) about them if you tried. Being a jerk just because you can is ... like, why?

Ultimately, far as I'm concerned, I'll generally regulate the usage of faggot or other loaded insults on the simple basis that it just spreads a negative tone. Nobody's life is improved because they can call someone a faggot, a nigger, a dyke, what have you.
The words have no value or meaning in themselves, they're just vessels of expression. When you call someone a faggot, you're likely not thinking about them as a homosexual, but as a stupid person. Really, it's the same for other slurs, you just use them to convey disdain. Very rarely do slurs see use today as actual derogatory terms directed at the group they were once used to condemn, they're just used as placeholders.

Restating it: my stance is you shouldn't use them here, not because oooooh you might offend someone, just because all it does is create a negative tone. What you say in private with your friends is up to you and them, but when you engage a broader community, it's uncalled for to use slurs or other insults in general.
Be respectful to others as long as you're talking with them via our forums. If you're hitting them up in those Discord DMs (or similar), say whatever you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Best post in this thread

btw

 

To the people citing freedom of speech this isn't a government, you can speak freely but there is no such thing as freedom of consequences.

 

Ok I lied, I am going to post one last time. Ok before I go deeper in, YES I UNDERSTAND WHAT FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS. Jesus I used it incorrectly, but that wasn't the only thing I talked about, yet base the entire post on that.

I was mainly talking about government but to put that in terms of a corporate or private setting oblivious makes this untrue.

Oblivious people do give a damn, who are you to say what a shit-tier word is?

Yes this is a community. A community that believes that we can talk through shit. If I want to talk about how certain rules suck, I can. Hell I can even advocate for the change of certain rules and discuss it in threads like this. Also its not edgy in the least to advocate for the ability for people to say what they would like. You think that I walk up to homo's and call them faggot? By banning words you give them an insane amount of power and allow them to 'abuse' LGBT people.

Why was this ignored?

Good, because what you write embarrasses me.

That is true expect for "It does not give you the right to be an abusive pos to people, sorry not sorry." It actually does, I have the right to call a homosexual a faggot but that's beside the pont.

Doesn't matter what the current social climate is.

I did and it doesn't mean I have to agree with all the rules and again I can definitely advocate for those rules to change. Communities change, people change, laws change, so why can't a rule on a server? Also nice jab at the whole KKK thing. I mean really? Do you think the only people that say nigger and faggot are people that like those organizations? You don't have to hate homosexuals to use the word faggot and you don't have to hate blacks to say nigger. When you associate someone that says faggot to the KKK you reduce what it means to be a KKK member. Not that I am opposed to reducing the KKK but it loses the punch of actually calling out a KKK member if the baseline is using the word faggot.

I don't understand why this was a dumb post. If you ban words you are restricting a person speech. That is logic 101 what's the problem with saying that?

I think the rule is dumb. The enforcement of "racial or group slurs" is totally ass backwards. If you want to ban the outright use of queer, faggot, or gay. So no saying "He acted queer today" or "His attitude was very gay". I mean shit if we want to be consistent and play by the rules then when anyone wants to use the words
Ape (Black Person)
Crow (Black Person)
Chink (Asian) - No - "There is a chink in my armor"
Jap (Asian)
Cracker (White) - No - "I am going to by some crackers"
Chug (aboriginal)
Hillbilly
Redneck

You can't because that shit triggers me. Homosexuals are not special. If you want to protect groups from 'harmful' speech then do it for all. You better not "Chug a beer" or I will get my aboriginal mother to come and ban your ass.

I mean I personally love the aggressive tone buddy. I also don't care where YOU'RE from. I am simply saying that its wrong to restrict speech regardless of how sensitive your skin is. Also buck up (I just want to use that somewhere).


Overall my entire point is that its dumb to ban words to protect groups. Unless you do it for everyone then you create bias and just show an agenda. If you do protect everyone from words they dislike you severely limit the vocabulary and punish a lot of innocent people.

That shit was funny btw.

P.s 1000th post!!!!

 

Yeah we get that you think it's dumb. But your.. personal thoughts on the matter, are irrelevant. Just like you consider the feelings of others. I would chalk that up to irony, honestly. This isn't Darth West's SGM, this is a community where we have to consider how the majority thinks and feels and responds. Not sure how this is hard to get - you confuse me. Sometimes you say remarkably intelligent things, and other times, it's the complete opposite. Literally no one gives a fuck if you think people are thin-skinned, it's not a basis for argument on this subject for the reasons I've already stated.