Admins Shouldn't Have Discretion To Allow Forgiving Of Themselves

Well, that's good and all, Wink, but that's you. Your colleagues are not all like that. Honestly, if you don't ask for forgiveness for yourself, why be against taking that option away? You seem like you personally disagree with it, because your actions say so.

 

The one incident was the catalyst, not the only one incident I've seen. Like I said in my original post, if you had cared to read it instead of getting hotheaded.

 

Alright, I'll do that. But that one incident isn't the only one where it was clear RDM and they asked forgiveness. Like I said, I'm friends with a lot of staff. And they ask me a lot of the time. People that aren't me will definitely forgive if asked, even in black and white RDM cases (as Solar said), and that's not good.

 

I just think Admin's shouldn't forgive themselves to lead by example, even for normally petty things. It shows staff hold themselves to the strictest standard, and it elevates them to a higher position of authority when compared to the people they are allowed to forgive. If they can get another admin to forgive them then like everyone else, they can avoid the slay, but like everyone else, if they can't, they should take it. A big 'Nobody is an exception' kind of approach.

Edit: Or rather, an admin has to get a lead admin to approve it, to avoid conflict.

 

Unless the admin who RDMed the mod affected other players in doing so (crossfire, a player shot the admin and his karma decreased, the mod was the last T alive, etc.), then I don't see a problem with the forgiveness given, assuming the mod didn't mind

This same logic can be turned around and used for "mods shouldn't handle reports on themselves", which is ridiculous

 

I'm not hotheaded, your premise is just ridiculous. You're making this out to be like it's a regular thing, and it's not. Simple as that. At no point should this result in some needless revoking of administrative potential. If an admin is abusing discretion, they shouldn't be admin. Not, all admins should suffer because one or more of them misbehave.

 

If the victim doesn't forgive, the person who rdm'd would be slain.
This literally applies to everybody.
Newcomers, regulars, staff, etc.

All it takes for the forgiveness to be instantly shot down is for the victim to just say "No."


Regardless, I do check and make sure whether I rdm'd or not.
If I rdm'd, I will make sure that I am to be slain for such.

As for the entire suggestion, I'm going have to side with HelixSpiral and Graze on this.
This should be something that you should go and report to their superior if you see an admin blatantly abusing the forgiveness features.
If that person is found to be abusing his or her admin discretion powers, that person will be punished for such.
Why should we let an rotten apple spoil the entire barrel?
Unless you can prove that there is a huge history of abuse of forgiveness going on, I just don't see the need to change it.

 

That's a good point, Python. At the very least, I would like that they wouldn't be able to directly ask the player.

 

I get that, but this falls under the same reason why forgiveness isn't on reports: Just like it's incredibly awkward to say no to your friends, It's just as incredibly awkward to say no to an admin. Say you are someone who wants to become a moderator, you have an open application going, and an admin RDMs you. They ask for forgiveness, but you just lost your T-round to some bullshit, and you don't want to forgive, but you feel like if you don't forgive them it'll just create issues.

 

I mean, ideally, if there is another moderator online, they should handle the report on their fellow moderator. And it's not the same thing, because in one case you are asking for an exception to the rule, and the other case, you are expecting them to follow the rules

 

Then, the person shouldn't exactly be an admin.
An admin who holds grudge against a person for not forgiving him/her for RDM that he/she committed isn't exactly the kind of people we would want to have on the team.
That's just petty overall.

 

That's not what I meant. I mean the player will feel anxious, and forgive them without actually wanting to forgive, and it applies to more than just people with mod apps.

 

To give an example, if you @Yuuki RDMd me, and asked me to forgive you, I doubt there is a situation I would say no to, even if it really pissed me off that I got killed, and I wouldn't want to forgive you or anyone else for that particular case

 

I personally never use my admin discretion or myself or mods as I believe staff should take the slays for their RDMs because I feel that since staff are held to higher standards, we should take the slay to show that even staff can make mistakes and own up for them. Not every admin does this however it is up to them if they want to forgive mods/themselves for RDMs if the victim forgives.

 

@TomCat™ sums it up perfectly.

 

You say that staff are held to higher standards but then say it's up to them to meet that standard, and if they don't it's perfectly okay, which I personally disagree with and find contradictory. Is there a standard or isn't there? I know if Mods failed to meet their standard, which is non-toxicity and a quota for hours, they would be demoted. What is this standard that Admins have that they don't have to meet? Can that even be called a standard?

 

I love the idea behind this post but I simply can not support it my friend. While I agree that staff should not be asking the player they rdm'd if they forgive there are some players who insist upon said staff member being forgiven. A case of this fresh in my mind happened 2 nights ago. I was a traitor who trew a frag with ample warning but i limp wristed it apparently and did not arc my cooked nade to its destination and dropped it on my traitor buddys head. Although my kill was technically covered by my warning i still asked for the slay because it was a shit awful nade, the player sent me several pm's to not slay myself without my provocation. I ended up taking the slay anyways cause i felt like shit my bad frag took away his t round.

To take away from this removing the power to have an admin remove a slay from themself is a noble idea but there are players who genuinly want to forgive the offender, and with three leads there is a good possibility none are on when discretion is needed.

 

As I've said, I'm open to just removing their ability to ask. That player wanted to forgive you unprovoked. Asking someone puts pressure on them. There's still a way for this to be taken advantage of, but I believe it'd be enough to make all parties happy. Admins keep their power, and us lower players don't feel pressured to wave away the rules.


Goomba stomping could be an exception as there is a pre-existing rule covering that ground.

 

What I was saying was my opinion, I would like it if discretion can't be used on staff members without a very good reason. What I meant was that staff should embrace their punishment and show that everyone makes mistakes and they should own up to them and accept the punishment, especially since staff are the ones enforcing them. Again, this is my opinion, not every admin does this and it is up to them.

 

But why not stand for your opinion and make it the true standard? That's all that's being suggested.