Hello, I would like to have a bit of discussion with you guys about the grace period rule. I recently got RDM'd twice or three times, and the RDM'er never got slayed, but there was always a reason for it. One of wich being the grace period rule. I wanted to know what you guys think about that rule, and a suggestion I had to improve it, here it is: - The grace period should end when the dead players body gets identified. This would, in my opinion, make things more logic, even though you might say it is not enough time to understand the situation, and I do kind of agree. The best thing to do imo would be applying the previous rule I mentionned, but with another 1 to 3 seconds supplementary time after the traitors body got identified before grace period ends. EDIT: When writing this post I thought the grace period time started when the traitor died, not when his body gets identified, so half of the things I said here are false/not logic.
Use commonsense when to kill based on grace period, don't do it if you obviously know they aren't a Traitor. The rule is logical though, cause if you see someone get killed you should be killable for it.
The grace period doesn't start until the body is identified. Before then the person who killed the player can be killed for killing a player of unknown role. Your suggestion is pretty much the removal of grace period, which has been suggested before, or the shortening of it to 1 to 3 seconds, which has been suggested numerous times before
I would be more in favor of reducing the grace period to 3 seconds rather than outrightly removing it. Accidents and confusion can still occur whether we like it or not. Would like you to be slain if you shot somebody who killed a person and id'd the body and then stopped when you realize it was a traitor? So on. Overall, I'm going have to give -1 on this suggestion because what you are talking about is removal of grace period. If somebody is abusing the grace period to kill people, just record and report the person because it can fall under toxic gameplay and what not.
I am highly opposed to this, even Agent's idea. While most situations, 5 seconds is probably way to long, there are still a lot of situations where 5 seconds could even be argued to not be enough time. It's not universal, but if I see someone get shot right in front of me, and I have to deal with some dangerous terrain or a separate shootout, not only am I not going to see what the body was ID'd to be, I might not even see that it was ID'd, and it could take several seconds before I am able to react to the guy who just shot another in front of me. And, in a game where a second is the difference between life and death opening Tab and scanning through the scoreboard, checking the body's name to wherever it appears on the list, it just takes up way too much time.
Hello everyone! Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to point out, though, that I was not thinking of removing the grace period completly. I was talking about stopping/shortening it when the dead players body gets identified. I believe that once that body gets identified, the situation gets easier to understand and less RDM's happen.
But the problem is the grace period starts when the person kills and ID the body. To stop from there is to effectively remove grace period. However, I can understand shortening the grace period to shorter period of time.
I was about to say reducing the time to 3 seconds would be fine until I scrolled up and saw Agent had already said it So yeah, that's my opinion. 5 seconds is too long, I can agree. But to remove it entirely would be asking for a lot of RDM reports and unneeded slays.
Oopsie I thought the grace period time started once the person died, sorry everyone (and thank you @Yuuki!) Why doesn't the grace period start like I thought it already was though (that means when the dead players body gets identified), it would maybe be more logic. You could kill someone for killing another guy (who you don't know yet is a traitor), and when the body would get identified you'd have to stop shots since you now know that the guy you were about to kill killed a traitor. I would definitly shorten the grace period time then. It's already ironic (but logic) to have a rule protecting people from getting slayed after killing another innocent who killed a traitor. Some of you guys, like @TomCat™, said that 5 seconds were short enough. I don't really think so since, once again, these 5 seconds are basically the time this rule gives you to realise whether the person that got killed was a traitor or not. In normal situations, I'm sure the average time is below 2 to 3 seconds, so here comes my next question: is this rule here to protect RDM's in normal situations or in the most situations possible? Shortening the time may affect special situations, but you have to think that 5 seconds already cause a lot of RDM's (without any punishments) in normal situations.
I like it where it's at, 3 seconds would be okay too but still see no need to change it. Cause players don't know if you just killed a T or an inno, I understand that it pops up on the top right of your screen but at times that goes by quick depending on what all is going on during the round. I mean yea getting killed over killing a Traitor as an innocent sucks, I've been in your place many times. But I'm sure you've killed people for killing others, even during the attempt of id'ing the body just after they killed them. I've done it, and notice well this sucks just killed a fellow inno. It's the heat of the moment. -1
Here's another piece of info too that may help out "Reaction times vary greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3 seconds (sec or s) or more..."
Wanted to link you to a post for a suggestion that is very similar to this that took place earlier this year: https://www.seriousgmod.com/threads/5-second-grace-period.41484/page-2#post-398727
I think the real issue that needs to be addressed is how quickly toxic gameplay is handled. It takes so many minor offenses, you could do this half a dozen times in the span of a single map and you might not even get a warning, even if a mod saw every single one. Sure, in the majority situations 3 seconds is ample time, but like I said above, there are just plenty that aren't, and I am sure there are a lot more situations that 'aren't' than there are situations where it would fall under toxic gameplay. ''Special situations' are a lot more common than you'd think about, if you consider how much focus just jumping over a bunch of loose chairs takes when you're trying to do it quickly. You still witnessed the killing, but you didn't see the pop up window, and now your only options are to shoot them. pr search out the name of the dead guy amongst dozens of others, which will take at least a second no matter how quick you are, and that's enough time for literally every gun in the game to kill you, if the other guy is accurate. Of course, that's just my personal experience telling me this, but I find it hard to believe that there are more cases of toxic gameplay than there are cases were 5 seconds is required, and even if you want people to be more attentive, when it boils down to it, this is still a video game, and having to go through an extensive check list before you pull your trigger just makes is a chore. 5 seconds is perfect because it covers most situations where you might be distracted, and while people will still take advantage of that, that's why we have Toxic Gameplay bans . That, and karma. We don't need to make TTT a pro's game. It's great because both casual and serious gamers alike can enjoy it, especially on as server like this. Lets not change that.
@TomCat™ While I do agree with you, I still believe that most of the reports regarding the grace period rule will not end up in a slay, wich is why we could shorten up those 5 seconds. I also find it interesting that you started talking about toxic gameplay, I haven't seen someone being toxic with the grace period rule yet but that could indeed happen.
But that's just it: If they aren't being toxic and they still kill you, why should they be slain? Chances are, they are following the intended purpose of the rule: Let you maintain a steady gameplay without having to scrutinize your every action. Yes, this means that you will get killed for doing the right thing, but it also means that you won't get slain when you inevitably do the exact same thing. It's one of those things that, while people do it to varying frequencies, everyone (And I mean literally everyone) at some point or another kills someone and is only protected under the full 5 second grace period. It's just one of those rules that creates a firm line between 'Chore' and 'Fun' when it comes to the actual gameplay, at least in my opinion.
Removing it? -1 Making it to 3? +1 Do you have any proof to this or are you just exaggerating? Frankly 5 seconds is too much. An innocent dying after killing a traitor by another innocent shouldnt be excused with "casual gamers have slower reaction time". What Tomcat etc arent even considering is that grace period only starts once the player has also IDed the body. It takes atleast more than 1-2 seconds 90% of the time before an innocent killing a traitor actually IDs the body, making the time effectively way longer than 5 seconds. Small timeframes are excused with confusion but if someone kills me for example 6 seconds after I killed a traitor,4 seconds after I IDed a body, there shouldnt be any excuses. Any kill after like 3 seconds into "grace period" just comes from player's lazyness to check if T died or not, at such time frames you can already just run away around a corner/object and check if a traitor or innocent died. 3 second grace period is more than enough for any casual/new player actually playing the game without ruining other peoples rounds.
Other than common sense and personal experience? No. You don't need proof for everything, Jassa. This is a discussion, not an inquisition. "Oh, it says Serious in the name! So that must mean everyone has to be perfect and flawless in their gameplay, and any and all fuckups must be punished, no matter how trivial or player-unfriendly it is" If you honestly want it to be like that, then there isn't an argument I could make to convince you otherwise. I have always seen the 'Serious' in Serious Gmod to represent the staff's dedication to the server, not a commitment to elitism in a very casual video game. However, for the people who want this game to be accessible and fun for everyone, not just tryhards or Pro-TTT gamers, I just want everyone to go into a room filled with large props, throw a discombob or clump them all together, then time yourself how long it takes to get past them. At the same time, have some text scrolling in the corner of your screen. Time how long it takes to get over this mass of props while you are able to perfectly recite what the scrolling text says. Then imagine that in a situation where, out in the hallway or room right in front of you, through a doorway, you just watched someone kill another person. For argument's sake, lets say they took 2 seconds to ID the body. And now they are shooting into areas unknown, but they walked past the frame, so you can't immediately shoot them. It takes a moment to get untangled from the props, or for them to walk back into view, with you still stuck on the props. Now, Jassa's way, once you are in a firing position, you must: Check the name of the body, open your scoreboard menu, and find that name amongst what will usually be a dozen or so others. That gives them ample time to finish killing who they are killing, and if you are still stuck on the props, you are completely vulnerable. And because they are shooting out of view, you aren't allowed to kill them for shooting other people. In a game where every second can matter, you just died because you were forced to verify the status of an active shooter. Maybe they even rush into the place you are standing in, reloading their gun, staring at you face to face, and you can't even read the name of the body because the shooter is standing in the way, but it's already been three seconds and they probably just shot someone else. Now, the current way: The moment they step back into frame, you are allowed to shoot them, unless an inordinate amount of time has passed.
Except you are making this overcomplicated. Nobody is going to be stuck in 30 props 99% of the time not to mention in some weird room full of props with a discomb, not really a real reason as to why X can or cant be done. Around doorways the only thing you need to know is the shooters name, if they ID someone who is an innocent, you can kill them, if they ID a traitor you dont shoot. Not very hard is it? You also have to check the killers name from the beginning to make it wasnt a detective anyway so I see no problem how this makes your life harder around doorways. Also if you know the dead bodys name you can quickly just check every red name on the scoreboard, not for his specific name. If there are no red names with his name, he was not a traitor. I honestly cant see how you can make such a simple task sound like you have to do some precision doctor work. You are talking like only a "pro" player can succesfully find out if someone killed a traitor or not. Sure if someone just finished killing someone in closerange and IDs the body instantly as you walk into a room you might confuse them for a traitor and shoot instantly but when you have more than 3 seconds to do a very simple task that prevents an innocent from dying, there should not be an excuse.
