So I was being blocked by a person in the bathrooms of the hotel map. I asked for somebody to confirm if there was a C4 in the bathroom. somebody eventually said yes. So I killed him, however there was no C4. I was then slayed for RDM. I've been playing on this server for about 3 years with almost 500 hours over the servers. In my personal opinion I should be justified in killing somebody blocking me when alerted that there is c4. Let me explain my logic. If X person calls a false KOS on Y person, and Z person kills Y person, and all of them are inno, not only does Z person not get in trouble, but X person is held responsible. So X person is held responsible for relaying false information and Z person isn't held responsible for acting on information relayed by another. I've stayed on this server for as long as I have because the rules have been so well crafted to prevent to the best of their ability grey area, and abuse. It's why I don't play on server that have weird grey areas with discombobs (ie: it's only traitorous if the discombob places you in danger, which is a huge grey area for a lot of people). In my personal opinion, people shouldn't be held responsible for call outs from another. If somebody claims somebody through a frag, the accuser will be held responsible, not the player who killed them. I feel the same logic should apply to C4s. Somebody told me that there was a C4 so I acting out of self preservation killed the person blocking me. Sorry for rambling but I also feel I should ask this marginally related question. Let's say Person A is blocked by Person B. Person C say there is a C4 in person As area. Now let's say there IS a C4 however it is far enough away from Person A. Because of the variable of distance, I'd imagine that Person A, B and C are all clear from punishment. However that would make Person A safe of RDM from killing somebody for a false C4 callout. The scenarios are extremely similar and in my opinion if both outcomes to the two different scenarios I have pointed out are different, it's a case of double standards and can mislead or confuse new players. Both scenarios a C4 was incorrectly called out. Either Person A and Person (me) should both be clear or both be slayed. Yes there is a different variable in play but like I said both scenarios involve a false C4 callout. Now I didn't make this a report thread because I feel the mod/admin who slayed me handled things reasonably and well. I am however making this thread based on my personal disliking of the way the the rules are structured (in this particular area, not as a whole, I love the rules as a whole, they are almost perfect.) Now I have several suggestion. I would love to discuss the plausibility of these rules with the admins and players. 1. C4 call outs should be handled in a similar manner as KOS. I don't think the player making the false call outs should be punished but neither should the person killing somebody for blocking them. 2. Blocking should be considered harrassing/delaying or a new rule all together. Perhaps blocking should just be slay-able or KOSable. However as far as KOSable bit, this would add yet another un-loggable way for people to loophole and get away with killing so I am not sure that is the correct way of handling it. However blocking rooms is extremely annoying and can be abused, exploited and griefed with so I think this issue should be addressed. It ruins the over all experience and is no fun to deal with (blocking people from getting inside the pool map form the spawn area, trapping people in rooms, etc.) 3. If neither of these rule should be added then acting out on C4 callouts should just not be allowed in general even if there is a C4 to prevent any grey areas in this part of the rules. (Personally I think this is a bad idea however if the previous rules can't be applied then this is the next best thing) And on a final note I have a question ; will a radio show up in the logs in any way? It could have been possible the person who said there was a C4 was hearing a radio, which would make my slay most likely, a totally different story.
Given that you didn't know there was actually C4 and it's your responsibility to fully know, you couldn't kill this person. If the other person that said there was a C4 wanted you to kill them, they would need to explicitly state a KOS or call theme a traitor.
Nah traping ppl is a good thing but if ur life in danger by hearing a c4 or thrown a frag you shouLd kill him if u want to live even if its was a radio u are able to kill him cuz u dont know if its c4 or radio I think if aomeone answred yes that there is c4 near the location u can kill that one who blocked you
But why should that be the responsibility of the mine, when it's not my responsibility to fully know if somebody is a T if they are KOSed? Logically speaking it should not be my responsibility if the former is true. I'm curious though. I you make a matter of fact statement that it is my responsibility, so can you elaborate why is it my responsibility? I'm curious of the logic behind this reasoning.
It's your job to determine (with actual proof) when there is a factor that can put your life in danger. You can't take someone's words just to have an excuse to kill someone unless it's a specific KOS or a legitimate factor that has your life in danger (such as actually being near a c4 for example). You need viable evidence of something that can prove your life was in immediate danger when it comes what you're talking about. Just like your logic with the false KOS, if they're called without any appropriate reason, then the caller gets punished and not the killer. Your situation however, doesn't constitute as a false KOS or a KOS at all considering there was no KOS called at the time. Our system of KOSes rely on 3 types of phrases: "Kill Player A", "Player A is a Traitor", or "KOS Player A". If none of these were stated, then you really had no right to kill the player for the most part. To answer your question about radios, purchase of any traitor or detective weapon does show up on our logs.
Thank you for the response and clarifications. but I would like to ask you these questions. 1. If there is in fact a C4 however it is too far to harm me, would I still get slayed? How can we determine that I acted incorrectly if there is no logs of distance. This leaves us with a grey area in the rules, which is why I think in my opinion, that the current implementation of the rules (It's your job to determine (with actual proof) when there is a factor that can put your life in danger. You can't take someone's words just to have an excuse to kill someone) because that leaves the admin with a un-loggable and un-provable scenario. In my opinion the best way to set up the rules is in a way where there is as little as possible grey areas and "word versus word" scenarios as possible. Obviously it's a bit more nuanced than that but that's just the way I feel. 2. Do you feel that door spamming and blocking is something that needs to be addressed? This is only marginally related, but personally I feel that dealing with door spammers and blockers is a pain and the ass. I feel like it has no place in a civilized and well moderated game of TTT.
As to talk about the suggestions you bring, I'll be giving my impression behind them. 1) If there is a c4 that is too far away to harm you and you kill someone for it despite not being anywhere close to the C4, then yes it would be a slayable offense. Your life wouldn't be in danger of losing health/death so why would you kill the blocker? C4s are only audible if you're close to the item (roughly. 500 points of distance) and/or know the exact location of it. The faster the beeping, the less time there is until the C4 actually detonates. That's what I personally use to determine how long a C4 has before detonating. If I can hear the C4 at a distance that can harm or kill me and there is no other way out with someone blocking me, then I will kill the player blocking me as demonstrated within the rules. I personally agree that there should be less grey areas, but these are also not a bad thing as they do give plaeyrs a chance and if they abuse this chance, then they'll be punished appropriately for it. --> To address @Dolph1n 's question, you don't have to see a C4 necessarily to kill someone as some traitors do tend to place C4 in the Traitor rooms for example or areas that non-traitors cannot access. If you kill someone blocking you due to a C4 and it's in the vicinity to cause harm or death/has audible beeping, then you can kill for it. 2) I personally don't think door spam or blocking isn't something that needs to be addressed at all. These can be used as a gameplay mechanic after all to delay/wait for the appropriate time of something to happen as well. However, if it's done excessively with malicious intent in an area with no other way out, then it may be treated as harassment (similar to following players excessively for example). However, it really depends on the factors that occurred in the end.
My only problem with that is that it is impossible to tell via logs if the person in question was close enough or not. This gives people and opportunity to loophole and get away with it (ie: lying by saying you killed somebody for blocking because of a c4 despite being too far away). This also provides us with a grey area in the rules (ie: if a mod doesn't know for a fact that the c4 was close enough to kill/damage he cant really slay unless theres some sort of video evidence) And one last final question, thank you for being patient with me, but if I hear a radio and I think it's a c4, will I be slayed for killing somebody whos blocking me? The chances of this happening are super low but I figure I should ask anyways for future clarification.
1. that's a word vs word situation, mods dont take anyone's word on anything without solid video evidence.
There is work always being done to decrease the amount of word vs word scenarios on the servers. Same goes with addressing grey areas. As for your radio question, no it would not be RDM if someone is blocking you and killing them even with a radio emitting a c4's beeping sound. How would you know it's a radio unless you see it? Since you wouldn't know, it's treated similar to a c4 when it comes to you being blocked. Which means that since your life is in danger, you can technically kill the blocker for it.
