Invalid Report against NoHackJustGood

Name of Staff/Player:

NoHackJustGood​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

you can do that​

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:0:146035069​

Which Server:

Deathrun​

Which Map:

Helix B8​

Which Round:

idk dood​

Time of Occurence:

today​

Reason For Report:

He said I was ghosting by saying a trap went off when PixeL and Party Buns did it before I did. I was told to stop and I did. We soon got to the map Helix B8 where someone got to the part of the map where a number code was needed a player typed "257" in chat. Me, not knowing what it meant I typed "247" NoHackJustGood then said my name and told me I was warned multiple times after only being warned once. He then banned me for 24 hours and didn't even give me a chance to explain my story. I understand he didn't mean harm but it just seems like nowadays "Serious Gmod" has gotten too serious; it's a video game and meant to be fun, if staff force the rules on players to this extent it just makes the game boring and wasted. I think he was just excited on being staff and really wants a promotion and he might think that acting on situations the strict ways he does can earn him that promotion. I don't mean to be that guy, but we need to make deathrun fun again.​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

Witness(es):
Proper.Grammer9
PixeL
PartyBuns
Berserkerpups
Me (Of course)​

 

Moved to Deathrun Report Staff/Player. I'll be tagging @NoHackJustGood and his admin @Tinbuster00.

 

I will respond to this when I get the chance. In fact, I will tag @xxcooldudexx06 as he was a witness for both offenses.

 

I want to comment on this real fast. I was here when this happened (obviously why I was listed in the witnesses). This did happen, and I felt like the jump to the ban was a bit too quick. It does say in the !motd that second offense of ghosting is a day ban and NoHack was following protocol, but these were both (from my perspective), minor offenses. I want to also include that I've moderated many gamemodes over the course of about 3 years, of course including death run, so I'm not just saying this out of bias; rather, from experience. I don't really have an issue with NoHack I suppose, but we do tend to argue over offenses that I feel are incorrect or overreactive. That aside, he's trying to do what he's seen others do and in that sense, he's not really done anything wrong.

I feel like in general, with NoHack, he tends to gag a bit too quickly, and exaggerates the amount of warnings someone has. For example, earlier today on helix (may or may not have been the same instance as when Dru was banned), he punished someone (can't recall whether it was a ban or a mute) for spamming something. It was 3 binds, quoting the "Just do it" video. NoHack mutes him quickly, and says "you've been warned many times not to do this, and have been repeatedly doing this over and over". I spoke up and said "this is the first time he's done it in maybe, 5 maps" and NoHack responds pretty aggressively that I wasn't on for the time before that (which was I guess more than an hour beforehand), and if I feel he's abusing I can go ahead and report him. He also refused to tell me what Dru's first offense was when I asked, and wouldn't respond until someone told me his first offense. He then agreed with that person, and I stopped asking about it.

Again, I typically only have an issue with NoHack's strictness. It doesn't really make him a bad person, nor a bad staff member. But, it does tend to ruin the "fun" that, from my understanding, the staff are meant to uphold. As for Dru's ban, a day ban isn't much and he can certainly wait it out. I feel like he could've done better with a second warning or, better, a kick, but that isn't my call.

 

swag dood

 

I will admit that I am a bit more strict compared to most mods and I am certain most players agree. Also, I told you afterwards what his first offense was and @xxcooldudexx06 said I "I remember" or something similar to that. I will provide evidence of this as well. This will be done tomorrow as I am very busy at the moment. The person I muted (the just do it person) was saying the same bind over and over and I warned him previously to watch how many messages he sends at once. You (grammar) joined on the map helix. He did this before that, which is probably why you got confused. Thanks again for telling the truth @ProperGrammer9.

 

I want to correct you on something: I did not join on helix. I joined well before atomic warfare, which is the map that Dru's first offense occurred on.

You did end up telling me the first offense, but I had to ask numerous times and you either gave me barely an answer or none at all. However, you still spoke to others, thus ignoring me. I'm sure you can understand how this could be frustrating. I also did not see the guy spamming the binds on any other map. If he were spamming it the other day or earlier in the day, alright. But he didn't spam it in the last 5 maps, aka the maps I was there for.

All in all, I would just like to see maybe a more lenient style of moderating. I know, as a single player, I don't really have a say and I'm trying to be polite and suggestive with this. As a previous moderator, as I said, of both deathrun and other gamemodes, I find that moderating changes a lot depending on the group on at the moment. Leniency isn't always looked down upon in the same way that strictness is praised. There's a golden gray area that, to me, I always strive for. Again, I'm not a moderator and you have no reason to listen to me, but by not "cracking down" as you refer to it, it's usually a lot more fun for the players. (Such as, not gagging me for laughing/snorting into the mic for a quick second, thus pissing me off).

B) this is my last post here.

 

First off I am not a witness to this I was on for a little bit this morning and got off since I had to go somewhere I got back on and played other games although I don't even remember playing helix today besides for when I logged off around one hour ago so....

 

I have been on when NoHack has gagged people for random reasons, one person said lol twice in the mic, and they were gagged. I was talking and I was sick that day so I coughed in mid sentence, I was gagged for a round. He is a little too strict

 

Hello @DruDerp, @ProperGrammer9, and @The Killing Joke,
I am going to treat this as a report from the 3 of you. I am going to start with my thoughts on this whole situation and everyone's comments. While explaining/reviewing my thoughts, I will show my evidence for each and every case you guys brought up here. I am going to show my true thoughts as well.

First of all, Party Buns did not talk at this time and @PixeL_Hops was a death. The deaths can say which buttons they pressed and which door(s) to go through, but most people do not believe them. The deaths can say "The code is 257" and not be called out for ghosting. This is simply because the deaths are alive. In this case, you were dead and you said (exact words) "The trap has been activated". @PixeL_Hops did say it first, but you said it while you were dead. Along with that, the player didn't even hear @PixeL_Hops (not that it makes a difference if he did). I warned you and you stopped, which is what you said above. This can be shown here. Also, ghosting includes but is not limited to: telling alive players the location of Deaths, what buttons have and haven't been pressed, and what color/order specific buttons have been pressed (Left Left Right, Green Red Green, "It's the blue door!").
Now let's move on to the Helix B situation. Another thing I want to show you is what you wrote.

I don't understand how "you didn't know what it meant". I explained in great detail (in atomic) what ghosting was and how it can be done. @PixeL_Hops was alive during this time and he typed "257" in chat. You on the other hand typed "257" while dead, which is considered ghosting. Afterwards, you claim that you were typing your favorite number in chat and that I cannot ban you for it. So of course, I took matters into my own hands and banned you for a day. It was obvious that you were potentially trying to loophole around the rules. This can be shown here.

The jump to the ban did happen quickly. He got banned 8 minutes after his first offense, which is pretty short. This can go for all offenses, such as harassment and spam. Ghosting just happens to be faster than both of those. Protocol for ghosting is warn and then ban for 24 hours (depending on if they have previous bans). They were both minor offenses (pretty much all ghosting is) and I do not decide whether or not I can kick them. I just have to go straight for the ban.

Like I said above, I am a bit more strict compared to most mods, but I have full right to gag/mute them for what they did. I'm simply trying to lay the rules down so we don't have any problems later on. I will go into detail about why I am so strict and things below. At the time, I couldn't think about what @DruDerp did. I have a notepad in my steam overlay, which is where I record all of my offenses. I wrote down warned for ghosting, but I didn't write the occurrence nor time. I told you once I thought about it and @xxcooldudexx06 agreed. I was the only one who said his offense so I am a bit confused of why you wrote "until someone told me his first offense", but that doesn't matter. The screenshot(s) showing he agreed is shown here (evidence is a bit weak due to the fact that my microphone is muted in videos). Also, I didn't realize that you joined earlier then that. My apologizes. I want to say that every moderator moderates differently. I am sure no one wants to be me .

I will see if I have evidence of that. I might have deleted it, but ☼Berserkerpups☼ thought it was considered spam as well. We had a conversation not too long ago about this. I'm going to start off by saying that there is never a need to cough into your microphone when there is a push to talk key. If it was that bad, I am sure I probably would have gagged you for it. If you have any other moments you can remember, feel free to send me a message either through steam or the forums and I will look through and see if I can find that incident. I am always willing to explain my side of the story.

You guys are probably wondering why I am so strict. Recently, there have been several amount of trolling, harassment, spam, fake advertisement links, and the server just got toxic. This is only from what happened last night:

Spoiler: Ban

Spoiler: Ban #2

Spoiler: Harassment/fake links

This is just a small portion of what happened and after all of that time, things stopped and it was over. If I were to just be a nice guy and to let everything go down, this would happen for days. I'm not a huge fan of toxic servers as you see. You saw it all last night and you were adding on to it. You weren't leaving links in chat, but you were encouraging them to go on and continue. I'm simply stopping the worst from coming I guess if you want to say that. I feel players might take the server a bit more seriously if I lay the rule down. I will leave this up to my administrator @Tinbuster00 and see what he thinks on this situation.

Edit: Thanks @Verified for notifying me about this.

 

I would just appreciate it if you weren't so strict when the server is calm and only filled with regulars. Last night, of course, be strict. It was an absolute nightmare, and I'm surprised you didn't lose your cool. I only really ever join in honestly when I'm unhappy with how stuff is being handled. However, if the server is relatively calm and a few people are just socializing and enjoying themselves, I don't think gagging one of them for screaming once or laughing in a weird way will prevent toxicity. You've done that a lot, and it does piss me off. Again, for like the millionth time, this is only a request/suggestion. Being strict without any real reason to be makes the server feel tense and uncomfortable, at least for me. I feel like I can't talk or do anything really fun, because most times I just end up gagged.

Maybe something to keep in mind moving forward.

 

I'll be sure to mention this to @Tinbuster00 and so maybe I can talk to him about this. You do make a good point. I definitely should be a bit more "kind" or less strict in a way. I've seen several mods and admins just doing their job and being nice at the same time. I seriously do appreciate you going into more detail about this. This helps me out a lot actually. I personally just don't want to be one of those mods who don't do anything on the server. I am sure there is a way for me to still enforce the rules and not be so harsh about it.

Edit: Tinbuster is very busy at the moment and will respond to this later on. Please be patient .

 

@NoHackJustGood I mean I can respect your moderating style, you have good parts when it comes to moderating. But you're a little too strict at times. And when people are just having fun, and barely breaking a rule, you punishing them kind of just ruins the fun. I understand that they're the rules, but I doubt it really matters if people barely break the rule, I mean obviously it's all up to Tinbuster to decide what counts as a punishment and what doesn't. But what brings people to a server is when the moderators are chill, and laid back. But that they still do their job, you do your job. But it kind of gets me or other people angry, when you punish someone for such a minor offensive. You're my friend and all, and I think you're pretty cool, but it would be great if you were just a little more chill.

 

I'd like to comment on this whole situation since I have a couple of things to say.
Now, @NoHackJustGood did ban someone after the first 2 offenses, but it is protocol. Sure, he might be strict at times, but if he isn't, who will? I've seen mods let people spam, post links in chat leading to self-advertising websites or inappropriate links.
Although, I can see where @ProperGrammer9 is coming from. Someones NoHack does gag people for the slightest things, but I've also seen mods ignore those slight things, and then the person continues to do it and it becomes worse and worse.
Overall, honestly, the way NoHack moderates is his decision. I personally like/dislike his moderating at some times due to the strictness, but all in all I can see where it is coming from.
As I have been staff on some servers, even help own one, I can see how you have to be crude at times. The more strict you are, the less people will try and push you and break the rules.
Trolls love to test out a staffs patience, and if you are very lenient like some mods, they will invite their friends, and the other people will invite their friends, and then we have a bunch of trolls, who are promoting toxicity inside the server.
Those are just my thoughts, not hating on NoHack nor Proper. I agree with both of you in my own way.

 

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. I just see staffing as a very dynamic subject. There are times to be strict, and times to just simmer down and relax. I've been on both parts of the spectrum myself, mostly due in part to how the server is run and how the rules are set up. There is a line that is drawn in order to protect the atmosphere of the server, and people do tend to cross that line either with malicious intent or without realizing. Those 2 people are not one in the same, and I just think that learning to recognize the difference is a large part of staffing.


I'm glad this was brought up, and I'm sure that there will be few to no issues in the future. Dru is also unbanned at the moment, since it's been a day. Thanks @NoHackJustGood for being understanding.

 

I talked to my administrator and I talked to him about this problem. I'm going to try things a bit different. I am going to staff like @LadyLag if you want to say that. It depends on what they are doing and how disruptive it is. Thanks for standing up @ProperGrammer9.

Edit: More like thank you all. Message me in-game/through forums if there are any problems.

 

Hey DruDerp,

Thank you for taking the time to submit a report on my moderator. We take all reports seriously to ensure we sort out any issues that may arise. Regardless of the outcome, reports are a learning experience for all involved.
Moderators follow the protocol for punishments unless they have an admin's discretion.

While it may seem harsh, NoHack never acted out of protocol. In the first instance you may have had good intentions, but it was still ghosting.

Ghosting includes but is not limited to: telling alive players the location of Deaths, what buttons have and haven't been pressed, and what color/order specific buttons have been pressed (Left Left Right, Green Red Green, "It's the blue door!"). Essentially it's whenever inform alive players of events that could change the pace of the game while dead.
Context is important. If you told someone the code after all the runners alive passed the number platforms, then saying 3 numbers doesn't have any affect on the game. That would be similar to saying "1 4 8" or "it's the blue door" on AtomicWarfare as none of those statements are pertinent to the map. However on Helix, giving a correct or incorrect number sequence can easily affect the round.

While not exactly tied to ghosting, we talked about how @NoHackJustGood responds to other circumstances that require a moderator to use judgement. Things such as spam are unfortunately by nature discretion based, as some moderators/admins may have a varying threshold on what they view as spam. He also thought that he's on the strict side of this spectrum and told me he thinks he "needs to chill out". There is a point where it can be unreasonably strict, gagging because of a single cough in the middle of a sentence would constitute that in my mind. If you have any evidence of something like that, feel free to send it to me so it can be addressed.

Finally it is serious deathrun. Once runners are dead they shouldn't influence the rounds similar as they died and lost their chance to do so. Similar to this is why free runs aren't allowed as they go against the role of the death. There definitely could be a debate on whether or not the ghosting punishment is too severe. There is no division between dead and alive communication so often ghosting is due to a slip of the tongue rather than malicious intent. Unfortunately as a moderator, NoHack needs to discretion to modify a punishment.

In conclusion, as NoHack never acted out of protocol, the report is invalid. If you have any additional comments or concerns, feel free to message me on the forums or on steam.