Completed Report against Goose

Name of Staff/Player:

Goose​

Steam ID of Staff/Player:

STEAM_0:1:45665102​

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:1:5468069​

Which Server:

West 1​

Which Map:

The incident was on the christmas map. Slay was on pool map​

Which Round:

Believe it was the last round or second last of xmas level.​

Time of Occurence:

Around 1am PST​

Reason For Report:

Soo, not a fan of reporting but I felt this situation was handled unjustly with a lack of understanding or attempt to understand the situation. A lack of common sense, and ability to put two and two together. Maybe this will be a wake up call.

So on the second last round of the Christmas map I walked into the garage and looked up from the bottom of the ladder and saw Squisher shooting directly at someone who was also in the rafters of the garage. So I open fire and chase him up, and there is a dead body up top. He jumps down from the garage door thats up and runs outside, I chase and kill him.

So I get two reports on me, for Squishers kill I said "He was shooting at someone" Or "He was shooting someone". Goose can clear that up. The other I had no idea what happened so I said so in the response. It seems I killed the second reporter in crossfire the second time I opened up on Squisher. So it's crossfire, which sucks but is not a slay. So after I sent my reports I right away asked goose "@Wow what happened? How many people did I kill?" Because I wanted to clear the situation up and figure out what happened. No response. So I guess I cant ask my questions, like who squisher was shooting at.

So next round comes an nothing, game goes on. Map changes, nothing first round. Then I out of nowhere get a slay for two round. So I ask goose to explain why he slayed me with out any questions or responding to anything to get my side. So I tell him what happened. And he says "Well the logs show he never hit anyone, but he was shooting." "and from the logs the other guy was crossfire the second time you opened fire."

His reason for the slays, because I changed my story from my report response. Because I said he was shooting someone. When he was only shooting towards someone I guess. Which I only knew and could say after he finally looked into it and cleared it up. Either way, both are KOSable. And the logs show him shooting when I said he was. I do not see Squishers Hit markers, if he's shooting directly at someone you cannot always tell if they hit them or not. So you KOS them because either way it's KOSable. Goose decided to take my report response literally to the extreme, when with a bit of common sense and looking into it he could have figured it out that it was T baiting. Shooting and shooting at are the same thing, sometimes people make mistakes if the person was actually hit or not.

So I was slain for killing someone that was T baiting, and for obvious crossfire. Goose did not use his mind at all in this situation and over all half assed his job as a mod.

Nothing said was changed, just cleared up. Once you decided to do your job. The lack of communication, when there is a common sense answer is just bad. Even the evidence shows that it's either word vs word or Tbaiting. You decided to try to cover yourself by taking something way to literal when evidence was infront of you. Either way he was KOSable, and you dont slay for accidental crossfire.

Thank you.
If anything else Ill add it.​

Evidence And/Or Witnesses:

​

 

Hello @Rbizzle,
Thank you for taking the time to file this report against my mod, @Goose. I will provide my verdict after he has given his side of the story.

 

Hey Rbizzle, thanks for taking the time out of your day to report me on the forums as I genuinely believe it helps better our servers. Unfortunately this will not be my final response I just wanted to let you know I had seen this and that I will respond at the soonest I get a chance. I had work and school today and now I must go to my high school's graduation. I may or may not be able to provide my evidence as the video I was recording at the time seems to have been recorded corrupted. However the short form of my answer is that you said you killed someone for killing another player, after seeing he had not done a single point of damage to anyone else I slayed you for that and the crossfire kill because if you damage someone in crossfire while RDMing it is considered an additional RDM. I also did not accept your clarification that he was only tbaiting when you later @messaged me, because as I understand it we do not allow players to change their stories after their initial report response without admin discretion. For the 1 round delay in issuing verdict (end of 5th round to beginning of first of next map) I am sorry as I realize that can be a source for confusion and frustration in the matter. I also want to apologize for not responding to you immediately after you asked me what happened in admin chat, if I am remembering correctly I had multiple other reports I was finishing up and had not gotten to yours yet.

I also just want to add at the end here that I did get your side, that is what the report is for. I am not required (or allowed) to question every player after they file a report to make sure that they meant what they said.

 

Hi again, sorry it took so long for me to issue my final response. If there is any way to recover my video, it is well beyond me, so I will sadly not being providing screenshots of the reports and corresponding damage logs. In the end that shouldn't matter too much as we pretty much agree on the circumstances of the situation, just disagree on the way mods are supposed to handle reports. You said you killed him because you witnessed him kill someone else after coming down the ladder, in your report. I saw that he never damaged anyone and after the map changed issued the slay as I was just reaching a verdict on it when it switched. After I issued the 2 round slaynr, you believed I should remove the slays because you were now claiming you only saw him shooting at someone. I hope you see why I would consider this a change in your story. You have the opportunity to answer your report in the report menu when it first comes up, and I am not allowed to unslay you if you later decide that was not what happened. Even though I believe your story could very well be true and the other player could have been t baiting someone, I simply cannot decide what I believe and forgo protocol to make decisions based on that, as I have no discretion. This means I have to follow protocol and the protocol mods currently have to follow is to not let players change their stories after their original report response, no matter how probable their new explanation sounds. I hope you can recognize why this is the case, as if players were allowed to change their story after their initial response, no one who put in any effort to loophole would get punished. For example if I allowed you to go unslayed it would be the same principle as someone who claimed unided as a reason, and then after being slaynrd because of no current unideds, being unslayed because they said the person was GBA.

I completely stand by my reasoning in the situation and my issuing of the slays, and I have a clear conscious knowing I moderated to the best of my knowledge and abilities. I hope after reading my response you can understand why I would make the decisions I did, regardless of whether or not they were correct. Thanks again for taking the time to report me on the forums, and I hope to see you on the servers again sometime soon. @Wompzilla For the final verdict

 

You losing the video is the only way for you to get out of this. I even told Womp this is exactly what you were going to do. Whether on purpose or not, I knew it'd happen. You had an entire round and a half before map change to screen shot the report, which alot of mods will do incase of forum reports. Isnt part of your job to collect the proper evidence? If video is not consistant then you should be taking SS's

First you are now a liar in my books. You slayed my for "changing my story" when you are the only one doing that.

"You said you killed him because you witnessed him kill someone else after coming down the ladder, in your report.".

This was never said at all, not once only until Womp spoke to you did this response I supposiblty said came up. In game voice chat and steam chat when talking you said countless times my report response was "He was shooting someone" and you slayed me because he was shooting but never hit someone and after you cleared that up I said okay then he was just shooting towards them. To which you said I as changing my story, when in fact it was just cleared up. You said this was my response countless times. And now it's changed? Gj. Noone ever said anything about him going down a ladder either, so that shows your observation of the situation.

If I had said he had killed so and so sure I could see that being a slay, because he never did. But what you did was fail to communicate and look into the incident correctly. Anyone can be mistaken if someone gets hit or not. He shot in the logs when I said he did, he judt didn't hit them. That's still a KOSAble offense.

"youbelieved I should remove the slays because you were now claiming you only saw him shooting at someone. I hope you see why I would consider this a change in your story. "

No I don't see why, as it was only cleared up after you slayed me. It was not a change in story, only the story being cleared up late because lack of communication. People can't always tell if someone shooting at someone else hits them you took my responses to literal and decided not to use common sense.

"Even though I believe your story could very well be true and the other player could have been t baiting someone,I simply cannot decide what I believe and forgo protocol to make decisions based on that, as I have nodiscretion."

Exactly and you slaying is slaying word vs word. You can see in the logs he was shooting when I said he was and t baiting is still a possible offense.

 

Do you know how many times I've said he was shooting someone as a quick response in a report? Because its simple common sense and a quick look at the logs what it could be. If he never hit anyone usually a mod will whisper you, he never hit anyone, must have been Tbaiting. Why? Because they cannot slay for it, if the shots are in the logs its word vs word.

 

I really want to know why you are changing your story about what my report response was. ecause now you are saying something completely differnt (That covers your ass, surprisingly) Then what you were saying all last night. Strange?

 

Strange that you would call me a liar after you yourself admitted that you didn't know what you said in your report and that I would "clear it up" What an odd thing to say, considering when I attempted to "clear it up" you called me a liar. I am honestly done with responding to you, I have thoroughly explained my reasoning to you over and over again using several different means of communication and you simply insult me when I try to. Telling me things like I "lack common sense" and that I "can't use my own mind" I have remained consistent throughout the whole time I have tried to explain this to you, and any apparent lapse in my explanation to you is only due to what looks like an either an inability for you to listen to things that don't fit the narrative you place on a situation, or an ability to remove things from your memory that don't agree with what you want to believe happened. I very sorry that I can't get my video working now, as you seem to think that me lacking a recording of the situation is a free pass for you to blatantly lie about me and slander my name as much as possible. Unless you have anything new to add then please be patient as my admin will respond with a verdict as soon as he can.

 

Just to demonstrate my consistency this is what I sent Wompzilla right after I got off the servers for the night. Notice last message June 03 2:24 PM

Spoiler: Steam Message

 

Want to know something fun? We now have video/sound evidence showing you are changing your story. I call you a liar because you are lying on a forum report against yourself. Video coming soon.

 

Hello @Rbizzle. Again, thank you for filing this report against my moderator.
After reviewing the demos that I was provided, I have come to the following conclusion.

The videos I've provided below show the situation in question. You claim that you killed Squishy because he shot a player. On the close up, though it is quick, it is evident that Squishy fires his first shot a fraction of a second before his target is killed by a double barrel. Squishy then identifies it and begins to get shot at exactly before the grace period was over. Due to limitations with demos, on the video focusing on you, your player model vanishes. However, there was potential for you to witness the shot fired.

Spoiler: Full View

Spoiler: Close Up

Spoiler: Rbizzle's View

Spoiler: Damage/Shot Logs

So it's quite obvious that the issue doesn't lie with the kill, it lies with the response. Goose claims the following:

However, this simply isn't the case, whatsoever. If it wasn't for the evidence provided by a 3rd party, this report would have been marked invalid due to it being a word versus word situation; a situation which I simply could not have acted upon without the proper evidence. The following video will clear up what was actually said:

Spoiler: Conversation

Taken directly from Goose's own words, it is clear that your response was what you had originally claimed in this report, that he shot as someone. After finding your actual response, I can say without a doubt that the incorrect action was taken. Shooting a person doesn't necessarily mean that your shots will hit the person. The action is traitorous and its a valid reason to kill. As shown in the videos above and the shot logs, he did attempt to shoot a person. This situation should have been treated as word versus word.

I have already talked to Goose about this today, but I have to stress this to you as well. The proper evidence is of the utmost importance when it comes to reports, especially with ones like these. As admins, it is our duty to look at these reports without bias. With that in mind, the lack of evidence that both parties started with would have led to the opposite verdict.

Regardless, I apologize for my moderator's actions. I will be sure to properly guide him so that he can be prepared when he faces instances like this in the future. It is unacceptable to receive a false punishment, so I will make sure that Goose will make it right by serving two slays as compensation. He will be out of town until Monday, so I will make sure he follows through as soon as possible after his return.

Report: Valid

http://i.imgur.com/pLUNJ90.jpg