As can be guessed, this would be a thread on morality. Not a thread to hate on another for their moral choices or to display bigotry, but to intellectualize your moral perspectives and gain insight on other members and their moral views. This could entail religious beliefs, lifestyle paths, or any sociocultural perspective you may hold. Requests for clarification on what someone's particular views might entail or be limited to are encouraged. I would request that if a staff member happens to see something hateful, spiteful, troll-ish, et cetera posted, to remove it.
I would like to start a discussion instead of just pointing out my beliefs. Unless this is for discussion on moral discussions then w/e. Anyway, I've always found some intriguing answers to this dilemma I am about to pose. Please do not try to Superman your way out of it, be realistically serious. So, what are your thoughts on Sweatshops in third world countries? I honestly think they're necessary. Think of the alternatives. Coal mining, sex slavery, etc. Theres' no McDonalds for people to work at. Their best bet is to be exploited in the sweatshops. What about first world countries sending supplies to improve conditions? Well, seeing as I do have some background I'll let you know that the leaders of these 3rd world countries take in all the resources for themselves and do not improve the socioeconomic status of the country. So, sweatshops are a good thing! I am interested to see if people agree if they have background on this, and if they do not agree I would like to hopefully see a viewpoint that trumps the statistical and realistic aspects of this dilemma. I'm here just to intellectualize you all on the benefits of sweatshops. EDIT: Read my next post below.
If you look at anything and think hard enough, there can always be an upside. Look at the holocaust. Obviously it was a horrible thing, but if you think about global population, we needed a thinning of numbers! You're essentially doing the same thing to sweatshops. Although it does give people jobs, these are not great jobs. These aren't even good jobs. People are beaten if they don't reach a quota and aren't paid more than 50 cents a day (often less). You can't live off that wage, you can only survive. These places know that they can keep employees by giving them just barely enough money/food to survive, yet unable to over-throw their oppressors. You can't just compare sweatshops to worse things to make it a seem like a better thing. That's justifying cruelty and human rights violations.
The idea behind this thread is innocent enough, but I'm sure it will get heated in here if someone gets offended.
While many of our products are made in sweatshops, the workers still get paid way too little for the hard, and often dangerous work they do there, too little to afford shelter, and food. There are way better alternatives to this, the companies who usually enslave these people can afford to pay them the full amount for the work they do, however, because they have so much money, they feel that they are above the law, and can do whatever they want without retribution.
Here's the thing. I know that's the case. However, think of the alternatives. Can you name things better than sex slavery where you'll most likely be beaten, contract STDs, and probably NOT get paid or maybe again coal mining where it's an even more dangerous environment than working an a sweatshop and your health with drop instantly? Maybe you think dumpster diving would be more profitable, or working in a plantation? I'm just saying I am a bit educated on the subject, though they're awful places they're better than any alternative because the conditions are shocking better than any alternative you can find, 9/10 times. The people who own the sweatshops are like that, however they ARE the most regulated areas of work in a 3rd world country again 9/10 times. The country's leaders are corrupt, but what can we do about it? End their reign? Foreign restrictions, image, and a lot of money and time prevent that. We can't go making the world ideal for us. Think back. How did America get started? We got started on sweatshops. They're more or less stepping stones for the less fortunate. If you can prove a certain area of work in a 3rd world country is more times than not paying better with better conditions then I'll eat my words. They may be morally wrong, but I'd rather have them over the alternative. You're missing the point. Clear your mind, how is a 3rd world country structured? How are global politics and law structured? They're poor, and they're restrictive. America or UK can't send 1 billion to some place in Indonesia and expect results. Should we go there ourselves? No, restrictions! Also, global image comes into play. We're going to become more of a global police force than we already are, and people would gang up on us. You actually CAN compare sweatshops to worse things to make it seem better. Because that's the actuality of the matter. Sweatshops are not morally right in any way shape or form. They are though regulated and managed better than other areas of work that are worse than Sweatshops. There's nothing that can come to mind in a 3rd world country that is morally better and more regulated than sweatshops. It's a topic that goes against beliefs, but you have to take the good with the bad and try to make it into something bearable. The corrupt leaders of the country normally do take any sort of relief for themselves, and the owners of the sweatshops take most of the profit. That amount of money is inhumane to pay, but it's like you said enough to survive. The longer you live, the more chances you have to improve. People who somehow save enough from actually working at sweatshops end up going abroad in some dangerous fashion and making a name for themselves. Sweatshops are a stepping stone to success, even though they're one of the most inhumane practices out there. To make their situation better, you'll have to buy sweatshop items to improve the business. It's morally wrong, but to get rid of sweatshops would be more detrimental than you believe. The end all be all is: What is widely present in a 3rd world country. Understand this. 3rd world country. What is widely present in one that provides better payment, better treatment of employees, better hours, and better conditions? It's the lesser of few evils. With morality, you need to pick which case would be more morally right, even if it's inherently morally wrong. You all can disagree all you want, but until I am told of a better alternative that's widely available in 3rd world countries, sweatshops are better than the alternative regardless if they're morally wrong. Do some research yourself on the topic, I believe it's quite interesting. Also at Hobo: There's actually no overemphasis on the conditions in 3rd world countries. Just read up: https://www.mediafire.com/?idbh1b2d7ijo9ft You can laugh and disagree all you want, but in a situation where there's an A & B and no C (None of the above) choice, you need to pick one. Just do some education yourself, it's good for the mind than just playing vidya games all day.
Why focus on the conditions of third-world countries or even other first-world countries when there are troubles at home that are just as readily being swept under the rug under the pretense of other countries being worse off? Not disagreeing that sweat shops are more humane than say, human trafficking, but it can invariably lead to a downward spiral of "Well, human trafficking is better than intentionally injecting humans with syphilis (see Tuskegee Syphilis Studies)". @Merci_ To claim that something you disagree with is stupid is simply providing the argument of "Your wrong because I disagree". Considering morality in its own right is a subjective concept, there can be no true "right or wrong", simply a societal norm that is perceived as "right".
Oh, I totally agree! The fact that there's many issues that need to be taken care of at home also makes it that we cannot deal with these issues abroad. These issues abroad stretch out our resources to no end, and that only means we're barely keeping thing stable everywhere we put out hands into. That being issues at home or abroad, so nothing improves and more times than not they get worse. However, I have to say that human trafficking is more inhumane than sweatshops as that's basically slavery whereas sweatshops guarantee pay nowadays. I mean, I've been waiting for the past 1.5 years for the better alternative to sweatshops, and out of possibly 25 people I've talked to this with (Excluding my ethics class of ~20 people + professor) nothing came up. It's morally wrong, it's awful, it's despicable that it happens. But I would pick it over any alternative because it's regulated, pays, and is better condition wise. You're not going to be less healthy working there than in sex slavery. It's honestly like I will continue to say, pick A or B and not C situation because that leads us no where. The lesser of few evils. It's something I've come to hate that I agree with, but it's just like why would I want to get rid of sweatshops if it'll only make things worse?
That's mostly a greed thing. If there were global laws put in place about things like this, then there would be several million people living in poverty no longer. But, however you slice the cake of religion, there is always some form of evil that comes up, and that explains all of the world's evil. Though, the people who slice it in the way of Atheisim, can't explain morals.
Barring any legitimate definition other than speculation, couldn't you say that morals tend to be a social construct designed to reinforce people upholding the socially acceptable practices? I'm just stating the general idea from when I've asked people what their idea of morality is.
Sweatshops people are not forced to work in. It is not slavery per say. But economically it is slavery because where are they gonna work? Begging? Good luck with that
I am extremely interested in reading all of your thoughts for this thread, as well as the posts included. As someone who, I like to think anyway, has a pretty high moral code in regards to a lot of things, I honestly am intrigued by this thread. I will watch it, and tune in when topics arise of interest!
I dont really think about something until i actually see it for myself, but idk, i dont think we'd get the same production rate if we hired british/american people to work optionally in a factory making iphones and shit. i honestly sometimes think how shit life can be for me, without realising that there's people in 100x worse conditions that dont even know what internet is. as for religious beliefs, i honestly do feel sorry for people that have been brought up in forceful religious families because they aren't taught about atheism and whether it's right. they are just taught that there's a god that punishes if we do so much as touch our johnsons. i feel like at this point in my life, if i were brought up forcefully christian, i would've questioned my belief, but i'm glad that i can live safe in my own house without worrying that my parents will find out that i do or do not believe in god.
Not all strict religious families tell you those kinda of things lol. I was raised in a super strict christian home and was never told that God punishes us for bad deeds, rather the opposite.
i suppose this is what school is for, but i was never taught that there was no god, i barely payed attention in RE classes as a kid, i had to sort of work it out myself. i knew the whole concept of god but i never really understood why so many people believe he's real when there's no solid proof
No yea totally. If I said they're forced to work in them, they surely aren't. But yes, economically it's inhumane. Just something to get off of my chest. I'm more or less baffled that people go to such lengths to actually shoot down sweatshops even when there's a critical condition like "In 3rd world countries only". Granted, they're inhumane and not morally correct however whenever the counter I bring up many times along the lines of "Where will they go to work?" They say there's ways to produce better work, but I'm like "What are they going to do with their poor standing? Create more brothels or something? They won't make a McDonalds that's for sure. You're better off keeping sweatshops in 3rd world countries."
