Answered A question about a rule

What is the OFFICIAL rule on this situation?
I shoot a T
I kill the T
I ID the T
Another inno kill me
Apparently its a 5 second immunity after the ID for the inno.
But a long time ago it was told to me that its a 0 second thing.
Opinion?

 

Uh, killing someone is a T act. 5 seconds is the grace period between IDing the body to make room for variables like confusion that may occur

 

Hey @MetallicPie! Long time no see. Yes, it was determined that there is a possible 5 second vulnerability period where you can be killed after you ID the traitor's body. This gives a bit of a grace period for reaction timely other players.

 

well reaction time is more like .3 seconds so i would say a 2 second grace sounds a bit fairer

 

You know, I always thought about suggesting like a 3 second grace period. Although, I think it was more based off an average of player reaction time; skilled vs unskilled. We'll see what @Disruptionz @Darktooth @Slicck and @Highwon say to decreasing that time.

 

The reason the grace period is set to 5 seconds is because that's about when you can clearly see the "Player has identified the body of X. He was a Traitor!" In the top right corner of your screen.

It may be a bit earlier than that, but time is then given to react I'm pretty sure.

 

Well, I don't think it takes that long; 2 seconds at most. However, I think with latency factored in, 3-4 seconds would be the max time for it to show in the top right.

 

Although that is the current official rule, @MetallicPie , I have marked this unanswered to see if we can further review this rule.

 

I honestly wouldn't hate to make the change from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. It would tighten up our ruleset a tad and keep players more on their toes.

 

If u count to 5 in your head, it is an extremely long amount of time. And im talking about loooooooooooooong.

 

Reaction time is one thing, information processing is another. Some of our users also do not read either, but react or have a delay in reacting. Say player A sees you gun down someone and ID the body but they are a distance or something prevents them. Its not always Shoot, ID, Shoot. Sometimes its Shoot, ID, Walk, Shoot, or whatever the case is.

Plus, if a user states, "I know it was a Traitor he killed, I just wanted to kill him and get away with it." The five second rule could be waved here. This is loopholing and intentional RDM and could get someone slain if a mod determines this was a factor and reasoning for said player to shoot another, I would recommend requesting an admin review this report or request a slay be issued under RDM.

The grace period helps prevent confusion. A lot can happen in 3 seconds, even more in 5. A bit of flexibility for not just our mods for review of these reports, but our users, has shown the rule works fairly well. Not everyone works the same way.

Im also fairly sure this rule was discussed in detail heavily by staff when it was implemented and I do not see it being removed. We get more complaints about "traitorous acts" and "Accidental RDM shouldn't be RDM" then anyone complaining about the grace period.

 

I really don't see why we have to over compensate for players that are barely paying attention. It punishes the more experience players and gives lazy players way too much rope.
And who is actually gonna admit that they are killing people for the hell of it (unless they are trolls), if i hate you ill just keep killing you and use the same excuse every time and mods can't do anything because they have to follow protocol.
There is still a significance to changing the rule no matter how much its been discussed and how much impact it brings to the game.

 

This rule, to my knowledge, is currently being worked on to make it more beneficial for everyone involved, and so everyone feels justice was served

 

I feel like I've said something like this before...oh yeah....

lol

 

@Pirateer worded the reasoning beautifully with a discussion we had. I would let him explain why.

 

Review =/= Fixing iirc

 

It would cause a lot of confusion and slays for regulars, who would need to be informed about the rule. It also means that Highwon has to spend extra time modifying the MOTD/extended rules/coding something that displays the rulechange as a chat message throughout the servers. Moderators would constantly have to either warn every one on the server about the rule, which would annoy regulars after a while, or slay players who haven't read all of the extended rules (and there are a lot of players who haven't).

The grace period was made 5 seconds long due to a number of factors including lag, player skill, reaction time, etc. Most staff are incredibly skilled and expert TTT players on multiple servers, and we could buy T every round and just shit on 90% of the server without them able to even shoot us back. However, there are only around 50 or so staff, and there are hundreds, even thousands, of newer players who join our servers every day. Regular players might just be playing for fun and not paying much attention to the game. That's why the grace period is 5 seconds. It allows the accused innocent to run away and state his case, and if the killer can't figure it out within 5 seconds, which is an incredibly long time in TTT (shooting 1 player/checking tab/checking the body that the proven innocent killed/looking top right to see the global identification of the body/listening to the proven innocent's claims of innocence), then they get slain next round. Decreasing the grace period would result in so many newer players and even regular players who are used to the 5 second grace period getting slain. Even I tunnel vision sometimes and kill people 2-3 seconds after the traitor is killed. Imagine what it would be like for a newer player.

When you're new, you naturally tunnel vision and focus on 1 thing at a time, in this case killing the player who just shot someone. We can assume that it would take around 4-5 seconds for a newer player to kill a decent player (the decent player can escape or dodge, the newer player could miss his shots, have the wrong weapon out, panic to get his correct weapon out, etc) and this wouldn't be RDM. With the changes proposed, it WOULD be RDM and the new player would have to serve a slay, and he would likely leave and find a new server, resulting in a 5d ban and a loss of a potential player and member of the community. Additionally, to refer to the argument that reducing the grace period from 5 seconds to 2 seconds would decrease loopholing; it wouldn't. Loopholers, who are usually skilled/veteran TTT players with knowledge of the rules and how to bend them, would simply kill the players during the 2 seconds or find other ways to troll.

 

@Pirateer, the 5 second rule was something that was brought up out of basically nowhere. We had no issues implementing it and it wasn't based off of any type of data.

Metallic was here when it was 0 seconds; he was a regular. New players have issues with the 5 second rule more often than regulars; instances when they feel they were RDM'd, but it was within 5 seconds of them IDing the body.

Rules change. Granted, we haven't had one in quite some time, but even things like Traitor Baiting, Smoke grenades not traitorous, and the 5 second rule weren't here when I joined the server.

Regulars adjust to things well; that's one reason why they're regulars. Changing the extended rules would not be difficult. To even prevent something from happening, a note can be added to the motd to look something like the following:

*new* You have a 3 second grace period after killing IDing a traitor; you may be killed during this time.

 

"It also means that Highwon has to spend extra time modifying the MOTD/extended rules/coding something that displays the rulechange as a chat message throughout the servers."

Think about what taking 2 seconds off of the grace period would do. For the first 3 seconds, it's very likely that the player who killed the traitor will still die. If after 3 seconds the player who killed the traitor is killed, then we have to slay the player. He would either be a new player, in which case it's likely he leaves the server/doesn't enjoy playing, or a regular, in which case he would probably be pissed about the rule change/argue with admins/be pissed off in silence and overall it results in more slays which means less enjoyment for the players which means less new players will join and stay in the server. I don't see how taking 2 seconds off of the grace period will magically solve all these problems. All it'll do is confuse regulars, annoy players and result in many more slays for new players and also regulars. And in the grand scheme of things, people will usually be killed within those 3 seconds so all the rule change does is increase the number of slays that'll go onto new players.

 

I am in line with Pirateer. The lack of Admin input on this topic as well leaves me to believe this grace period is unlikely to be changed.