Denied wompzilla's Appeal

Your In Game Nickname:

Wompzilla​

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:0:53336498​

Which Server:

West​

Why you should be unbanned:

Appealing: Mass RDM +3 by Darth West

Situation: Let me begin by saying that I understand that I can play the other servers, I just care about my ban record, haha. I don't like having this ban on my record after being a member for so long. Anyways, I didn't print the logs regarding this situation, however I understand that you guys have them. This all began with me throwing frags at the pipes on that one map in order to flood it. A Traitor comes along and kills me, resulting in the frag hitting the ground and damaging/killing a few people.

The reason why I believe I should have this cleared from my record is due to the fact that I had been cooking the frag for a few seconds before it hit the ground. Therefore, when the T had killed me, the players in the vicinity had an opportunity to kill the T. I don't believe all 3 that got affected by the frag actually shot the T. I know for one that the T that I killed did not shoot the frag, so I believe this situation, though as extreme as it was, should have actually been considered GBA. If any of those who I affected had actually shot the T, then I definitely deserve slays for however they were affected. However, I still doubt all 3 actually shot the T who killed me, making GBA a valid reason for those who were affected and didn't shoot back at the T.​

Evidence of Innocence:

I don't have any evidence, but I believe I have my story straight, so it should all appear in the logs.​

 

You were banned by @Darth West for Mass RDM +3
He'll respond as soon as possible

 

Thank you very much. If I'm completely in the wrong, then I welcome any feedback given.

 

Darth West should not have even banned you if you were killed while cooking a frag. All of the kills would be indirectly credited to the traitor.

 

But were you throwing this frag to simply "throw a frag", or did you have the intentions to kill a traitor?

 

I was throwing frags, simply just to destroy the pipes and flood the map (Just like I do every time I'm on the map). I made sure to throw them in a safe manner at the pipes. The only thing that changed was that I lost control of my last frag due to the T killing me, which led to the incident.

 

Hello Wompzilla I would like to apologize for the delay in my response, but now its time to deal with this.

First I would like to say that I was greatly surprised when I saw the Log's and greatly disappointed. You were throwing grenades for the sake of trying to blow up the vents in order to flood the map. This is not an valid reason to throw grenades so damage made to other players is your fault and makes it valid grounds for RDM. Below is the !pm that you sent in which you explained why you threw the grenade.

Spoiler: Chat Log

You were throwing grenades in order to blow up the pipes and not to kill the people due to GBA so this is not a case of GBA but you trying to justify your kills in a way that doesn't work out here. Below is the Damage logs of the incident.

Spoiler: Damage Logs (Sorry about the quality)

I am sorry wompzilla but this appeal is denied and it won't be voided. This is only a one day ban and it will stay on your record. If my admin @Finn feels that I have been unjust in my course of action, I ask that you alert me to the course of action I must undergo.

Appeal:Denied
Thread:Locked

 

Darth West is correct in this, while Engimatica is incorrect. Unless you had specifically cooked the frag to kill a T, you had committed RDM one way or another. You are responsible after you pull the pin.

I made the analogy last night to @Disruptionz saying "Say you're in front of a line of police, and you pull the pin on a frag. One of the cops shoots you in the head, and the grenade falls and you kill everyone next to you. Who's fault is that for the deaths? You, the one who pulled the pin, or the cop for shooting you?"

 

I respectfully disagree with @Darktooth and @Disruptionz.

The way I have been taught, and the way I see it is that if an inno is cooking a grenade no matter what the reason and a T takes the opportunity to kill them having the grenade drop on the ground, the kills are credited to the traitor; after all, all they did was their job. Just like on minecraft_b5 if an innocent person is dropped into the lava at the tester because the light turned red, it's the result of a T doing their job making it appear as red. Traitors are allowed to use opportunities presented to them to kill even more innocents.

I personally feel that this appeal should be approved, but I'm not going to just overrule a decision my colleague supports. @Darktooth and I will discuss this further and get back to you.

 

I will also respectfully disagree with @Slicck and @Enigmatica, since killing someone holding a frag doesn't necessarily mean that the grenade will drop and explode. If the T were able to shoot the grenade itself and the grenade were to explode in the hand of the innocent, then the kill would be properly credited towards the T since he directly influenced the kills. However, this was an accidental gain by the T in question.

Our blanket rule for frag grenades is that if you do damage to anyone randomly, it counts as RDM, if your intentions were not set on killing a T. Blowing up the pipes or blowing up barrels, any kills that happen in the process are at the fault of the person who initiated the danger, which is the person who pulled the pin on the frag. Of course he can be held responsible, because if he had not pulled the pin in the first place, the people would not have died. There was no danger prior to the player pulling the pin, and now the player has initiated a dangerous scenario and put his life and others at risk. Isn't that one of the redeeming qualities of a frag grenade? It's got capabilities of killing anyone with one hit directly, but you have to be cautious of what you do with it. It's a very lethal weapon, and you are put in a sticky spot when you activate something that doesn't get to it's proper destination.

However, I am not a mule and I understand @Slicck's point. We will discuss this on TeamSpeak, possibly with a few select others, and resolve this with ourselves. We do not care for any opinions without directly asking of such, so to those reading this, please do not stick your noses in these affairs.

I can promise you that if we do approve this appeal, that this ban will disappear from your record.

Have a wonderful afternoon.

 

While Darktooth and Slicck decide what to do with this, I would like to clarify that I gave @Darth West permission to ban you when he came to me with the reports.

I personally feel that in this instance, you have no valid excuse to throw frags other than your own amusement, and in this case that cost innocents there life. The mitigating circumstances did nothing to sway me in my opinion, as you did not need to throw those frags to defend yourself or otherwise help your team win, which is the underlying goal of TTT.

As such is the case, I would recommend this appeal be denied, as Darth West was not acting under his own pretenses and was instead directed by myself. I will take any responsibility if this appeal should be approved.

 

After much deliberation this appeal has been Denied. For the reasons I listed above, we as a team felt that in this case the ban was just, and therefore it will NOT be removed from your ban history. Understand that we do this not in malevolence but in upholding the spirit of the rules, which is to give the most amount of players the best experience. In this case you just really had no good reason to be throwing frags.

This is one of the few times where the rules cannot, by there very nature, be black and white, so I appreciate the time and energy it took for you to appeal it, and I hope you understand where we are coming from, as we do understand where you are coming from. If you want a more in-depth explanation, feel free to inbox me.

Have a good one.